Does holding the clutch in without gas hurt it?

[CodeSeven]

This may seem like a really dumb question to you guys. This is my second day of driving a manual. I'm worried about messing up the clutch.

Say I'm coasting to stop without using gas. Will it hurt the car to have the clutch full depressed as I coast a few feet forward? Or should I wait as long as possible till the very last second to depress the clutch to avoid stalling? Or do I put it in neutral as I coast to a stop, and then switch to first and hold the clutch and break at the complete stop?

I'm also having trouble going in reverse. If I continuously give it gas it goes too fast and I'm barely holding the gas pedal down. If I tap the gas and then coast it starts to shake as if it wants gas. Can I tap the gas, and hold the clutch as it slowly coasts?

Also are there any other common misabuses of clutch besides holding the clutch too long after a shift?

[Bawked]

wont hurt your car... pretty pointless not being in gear tho, its illegal to coast in some places..

clutch in when stopping or changing gear else stay in gear...

[Prodigal Son]

Say I'm coasting to stop without using gas. Will it hurt the car to have the clutch full depressed as I coast a few feet forward?

No. Or at least, not to any unusual degree. Cars wear out. That is unavoidable. Avoiding wear is impossible. What you need to worry about is causing premature failures. And holding the clutch a few seconds isn't going to cause premature failure.

By the way, the part that is wearing when you hold the clutch in is the throwout bearing, not the clutch. Both the clutch and the throwout bearing are wear parts, and when you replace one, you also replace the other.

Or should I wait as long as possible till the very last second to depress the clutch to avoid stalling? Or do I put it in neutral as I coast to a stop, and then switch to first and hold the clutch and break at the complete stop?

The procedure we normally recommend around here is as follows.

1. Stay in gear until you reach about 1000 RPM (but don't be looking down at the tach -- keep your eyes on the road). If you wait too long, the car will shudder a bit -- no great harm done, just clutch in a little earlier next time. If you are are in doubt, clutch in earlier rather than later.

2. Shift to neutral and release the clutch as you continue to brake to a stop.

3. Once stopped, set the hand brake, release the foot brake, and relax.

4. Watch for signs that it is almost time to go. (Light on the cross street turning yellow is a common sign.)

5. When you see it is almost time to go, depress the clutch, put the car in first, poise your foot over the gas and place you hand on the hand brake.

6. When it is time to go, drop the handbrake and launch the car. (There is no need to apply the foot brake before starting -- that's slushie behavior.)

I'm also having trouble going in reverse. If I continuously give it gas it goes too fast and I'm barely holding the gas pedal down.

Then don't give it gas at all. You should be able to reverse slowly at idle revs.

If I tap the gas and then coast it starts to shake as if it wants gas.

That's because it does. You have let the revs drop below idle and the shake is a warning that the car is about to stall.

Can I tap the gas, and hold the clutch as it slowly coasts?

Yes. A manual car always coast the last few feet or yards before stopping. It has to. The engine simply can't go that slow. You will get used to judging the amount of speed you need in order to coast into parking spots, etc. at the right speed. (Yes, holding the clutch while you coast puts wear on the throwout bearing. But then, launching the car puts wear on the clutch. You get no points for having a pristine throwout bearing when they go to change your worn out clutch. They are both going to be replaced together anyway.)

Also are there any other common misabuses of clutch besides holding the clutch too long after a shift?

Holding the clutch after a shift does not harm the clutch. In fact, no harm can come to the clutch at all while the clutch pedal is depressed, since the clutch is not touching anything. The clutch only takes wear when it is used to equalize torque between the engine and the transmission. The biggest abuse of a clutch is to use the clutch pedal to hold a car stationary on a hill. This keeps a torque differential between the engine and the transmission, meaning that the clutch is heating up and wearing for as long as you hold it. The longer you hold it, the worse the wear. The correct way to hold a car stationary on a hill is with the hand brake.

[jomotopia]

+1 to Prodigal Son's post.

a couple of other common ways people abuse their clutch are a> really high rev, long slip launches, b> accelerating through the slipping clutch on downshifts.

[permabanned]

its your second day driving stick. dont worry about stalling and being jerky and looking stupid, it will take a week or 2 to get used to driving stick.

[tehfade]

Don't worry about it. You are technically wearing out the throwout bearing, but that's FYI only--seriously, don't worry about it. The best technique is to stay in gear and downshift, but do whatever you're comfortable with at this point.

[gizmo]

To clarify: what exactly do you mean by long slip launches?

I, for one, slip my clutch longer than I would if used a different launch technique. I do so because I was under the impression that slipping the clutch at a lower RPM for a longer period of time will result in less clutch wear less than slipping the clutch at a higher RPM for a shorter period of time.

I've asked about this no-gas start thing for a while and I never really had any definitive answers: I'd like to no-gas start most of launches but my low torque econo box shudders if I try to engage the clutch in a period less than ~4 seconds and slipping the clutch for more than 4 seconds, sometimes through the shuddering, just seems wrong. So I usually am forced to slip the clutch at 1.1K-1.3K because it's very hard to actually apply pressure to the gas pedal and have that pressure register as pedal input without generating an engine response less than 1.1K.

[jomotopia]

by long slip what i really mean is holding the clutch pedal somewhere in the middle for a long time and preventing the clutch from synching up when it could, forcing it to continue slipping for much longer than needed.

[Prodigal Son]

by long slip what i really mean is holding the clutch pedal somewhere in the middle for a long time and preventing the clutch from synching up when it could, forcing it to continue slipping for much longer than needed.

But that is really only possible when there is some force pushing the car in the opposite direction, like gravity on a hill. Otherwise, if you are giving enough clutch to move the car at all, it is going to sync up. Only by balancing the torque of the clutch with an opposing torque can you keep the clutch slipping for an extended period of time.

[jomotopia]

by long slip what i really mean is holding the clutch pedal somewhere in the middle for a long time and preventing the clutch from synching up when it could, forcing it to continue slipping for much longer than needed.

But that is really only possible when there is some force pushing the car in the opposite direction, like gravity on a hill. Otherwise, if you are giving enough clutch to move the car at all, it is going to sync up. Only by balancing the torque of the clutch with an opposing torque can you keep the clutch slipping for an extended period of time.

if you're giving too much throttle and holding the clutch pedal part way in you could have enough torque transfer to move the car but not enough pressure to synch it up, no? if you backed off the throttle it would synch up, but if you keep increasing throttle trying to drive away, while still holding the clutch half way in, that's what i'm talking about. usually it's followed by a strong smell of clutch. i did something along these lines the first time i tried to reverse up a steep hill.

[Prodigal Son]

if you're giving too much throttle and holding the clutch pedal part way in you could have enough torque transfer to move the car but not enough pressure to synch it up, no?

I don't think so, no. Actually getting the car rolling takes more torque than keeping it rolling, so if you are transferring enough torque to start it rolling I think it is going to sync up.

but if you keep increasing throttle trying to drive away, while still holding the clutch half way in, that's what i'm talking about. usually it's followed by a strong smell of clutch. i did something along these lines the first time i tried to reverse up a steep hill.

Agreed. If you keep increasing torque before the clutch has a chance to sync up, then yes, you would keep slipping the clutch and incurring wear. I'm inclined to doubt that the amount of wear incurred would be any more than if you launch at high revs in the first place, but accelerating through a slipping clutch is definitely going to introduce more wear.

This kind of abuse does have a finite limit, however. You can only increase torque so far and then you run out of throttle and the clutch will catch up with the engine. Using the clutch to hold the car on a hill, on the other hand, has the potential for infinite slipping. If you held it for long enough, you could burn out a clutch completely on one hill.

So to summarize the forms of abuse:

1. Opposing countervailing torque (hill hold)
2. Too rapid torque transfer (dumping the clutch)
3. Too much torque transfer (high rev launches and unmatched shifts)
4. Premature torque increase (accelerating through a slipping clutch)

[asian319]

holding the clutch down causes wear on the throwout bearing. but when you reverse, you almost never fully engage the gear. i let the gear catch and get enough momentum then put the clutch back down and let the car's mometum go. is this just as bad or just cant be avoided?