Fiesta Frustrations

Synchros shot? Weird noises while shifting? Not sure what needs to be replaced?
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Re: Fiesta Frustrations

Postby IMBoring25 » Thu Jun 23, 2016 4:39 pm

The circuit codes should mean the computer's not getting signal back from the sensors. I'd suspect sensors or wiring.

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Re: Fiesta Frustrations

Postby Rope-Pusher » Thu Jun 23, 2016 9:11 pm

Squint wrote:Borrowed a OBDII from a guy at work. Reading 3 codes:

P0016 - Crankshaft position, Camshaft position correlation bank 1 sensor A.

P0365 - Camshaft position sensor B circuit (bank 1)

P0340 - Camshaft position sensor A circuit (bank 1 or single sensor).

The question now becomes, does the car think the timing is off so is putting the car into safe mode and not allowing power and the sensors are just broken or not communicating properly?

Or is the timing actually off?

Or third idea from anyone else? It seems there isn't a ton of Fiesta maintenance help to be found online through Google - perhaps the car is too new for too many overhauls by people?

Time to come out from under the covers and check to see if the cam timing is correct. Should be some arrows that get lined up when everything is copacetic. Checking this is free, just requires some research and some time spent removing belt covers and such.

If the cam timing checks to be OK, then try swapping in new cam sensor(s).
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Re: Fiesta Frustrations

Postby theholycow » Fri Jun 24, 2016 8:23 am

I'd certainly follow up on those specific sensors. Pull their connectors, make sure the connectors are clean. Follow the wires and inspect visually for obvious damage. Edit: Oh, and find out if there is any way to test the sensors with a multimeter.

Also look up those codes for cars with the same engine or related engines, see if there is a common non-obvious cause of those codes.
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Re: Fiesta Frustrations

Postby Squint » Fri Jun 24, 2016 1:05 pm

I'm going to attempt to inspect all of the sensors and applicable wiring. However, it seems very difficult to find a service manual for the thing... or even a wiring diagram. Chilton and Haynes don't seem to have one.

My dad is checking on http://www.alldatadiy.com (I didn't know about this one) but seriously... this is frustrating.
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Re: Fiesta Frustrations

Postby tankinbeans » Fri Jun 24, 2016 1:17 pm

Squint wrote:I'm going to attempt to inspect all of the sensors and applicable wiring. However, it seems very difficult to find a service manual for the thing... or even a wiring diagram. Chilton and Haynes don't seem to have one.

My dad is checking on http://www.alldatadiy.com (I didn't know about this one) but seriously... this is frustrating.

Is your car's engine any relation to that in the Escape? It might show up there.
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Re: Fiesta Frustrations

Postby IMBoring25 » Fri Jun 24, 2016 1:18 pm

You can try your local public library. Ours has an alldata subscription.

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Re: Fiesta Frustrations

Postby theholycow » Sat Jun 25, 2016 8:21 am

Difficulty finding repair documentation is one of the great disadvantages of having a newer car.

Have you tried just a regular web search? There could be a forum thread like this somewhere that's more mature where someone figured it out...and hopefully didn't do this:
Image

I found this:
http://www.autocodes.com/qa/30805/p0340 ... ord-fiesta
2012 Ford Fiesta SE throwing codes: P0016, P0017, P0340, and P0365. No visible wire damage. Recommended to checking timing on timing belt to rule out the belt, and if that is fine, to next check the cam shaft sensors. Finally, if those are all fine, I was recommended to check the crank shaft sensor, which I was told was a cumbersome process. Any ideas?
Symptoms: CEL on, and during start up there is a slight shudder or sort of skip, then it will turn on, or it may just not fully start and I'll have to turn the key to start the engine again.
Vehicle: 2012 Ford Fiesta, 1.6L


1 Answer
P0016 Crankshaft position -camshaft position Bank 1 sensor A

P0017 Crankshaft position-camshaft postion Bank 1 sensor B

P0340 Camshaft position Sensor A circuit (Bank1 )

P0365 Camshaft position sensor B circuit (Bank 1)

It is better to rule out a mechanical problem dealing with the timing belt area. This engine is out of timing. If this was a variable camshaft timing solenoid or even the cam position sensor the engine will start up but there would not be a shudder or a skip at idle. it would run rough on engine load. Rule out a mechanical condition


Seeing that the Fiesta can get a P0017 indicates the existence of a second sensor and makes me wonder about that crankshaft position sensor; I don't know that engine's design, but being an inline engine I can't imagine it has two camshafts, which leads me to deduce the sensors are redundant and there can't be a way for the camshaft position to actually be wrong without triggering BOTH sensors. On that logic I would try to google up a multimeter test procedure for Ford crankshaft position sensors. Also, depending on how the sensor works it could be sensitive to grit/corrosion at its mounting surface or dirt in its bore; it might just need to be removed, cleaned, and have its hole cleaned (send the Enterprise to orbit it in search of Klingons!). (Granted, my logic sometimes leads me to dead ends, so if the thing is buried under the intake manifold or something you might want to get more opinions before following that lead!)
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Re: Fiesta Frustrations

Postby Rope-Pusher » Sat Jun 25, 2016 9:41 am

I don't know that engine's design, but being an inline engine I can't imagine it has two camshafts, which leads me to deduce the sensors are redundant and there can't be a way for the camshaft position to actually be wrong without triggering BOTH sensors.

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Re: Fiesta Frustrations

Postby theholycow » Sat Jun 25, 2016 8:52 pm

Seriously? One for intake and one for exhaust, then?
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Re: Fiesta Frustrations

Postby Rope-Pusher » Sat Jun 25, 2016 9:16 pm

theholycow wrote:Seriously? One for intake and one for exhaust, then?

Yeah - sometimes, it lets them get better angles on the valves so the ports flow more....
It also lets you put in a variable valve timing difference between the intake and exhaust cams, to spread the torque curve flatter.
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Re: Fiesta Frustrations

Postby Squint » Sun Jun 26, 2016 11:11 pm

Rope-Pusher wrote:
theholycow wrote:Seriously? One for intake and one for exhaust, then?

Yeah - sometimes, it lets them get better angles on the valves so the ports flow more....
It also lets you put in a variable valve timing difference between the intake and exhaust cams, to spread the torque curve flatter.

RP is correct. It does have DOH!C. I inspected both those sensors today and found no issues with wiring, lubricant, or corrosion. Because life tosses a million things at you at once, I didn't get a chance to jack the car up to look at the crankshaft sensor. That's the task for tomorrow.

http://www.alldatadiy.com did actually have the info, including crazy detailed instructions on how to test every little wiring piece with tools that only electricians would own. The exploded ISO views were far more helpful to me to find where things were, though.

EDIT: Cow, I had seen that post, that was by far the most helpful thing I'd seen prior to finding all the documentation on the alldatadiy, but the quote from that site is slightly confusing. Is he saying to rule out a mechanical issue by inspection? Or rule it out because it's not that? Regardless, I did do multiple searches to find similar things, and there just isn't much out there.
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Re: Fiesta Frustrations

Postby theholycow » Mon Jun 27, 2016 7:00 pm

Squint wrote:Is he saying to rule out a mechanical issue by inspection? Or rule it out because it's not that?

The way I read it, he's saying that the first order of business is to inspect/investigate/test in order to actively rule out a mechanical issue, but he is not saying how nor is he suggesting to ignore it/rule it out by default.
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Re: Fiesta Frustrations

Postby bk7794 » Sat Jul 02, 2016 12:18 pm

Sounds like the two camshaft position sensors might have gotten bumped when wrestling with the serpentine belt?
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Re: Fiesta Frustrations

Postby Squint » Tue Dec 20, 2016 1:34 pm

I realized I never gave a follow up to this issues.

I'm guessing the problem was the sensors losing their marbles for some reason. They did not get bumped or moved (basically impossible because of position) but from what I've picked up talking to other people, the car went into the safety mode to attempt to not kill the engine.

We took it to a dealership that reset the timing and replaced timing components while they were there. It was a little early, with on mid 50k miles instead of the (I think) 75,000 miles that the book recommends, but they were already taking the thing apart for the timing, so they charged no extra labor to replace the belt.

Between the sensors and the new belt, everything is running fine again. Though I do feel after learning more from people at work that have run into similar issues, that it likely was just the sensors going nuts, so I could have saved quite a bit of money. Live and learn, I guess.
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Re: Fiesta Frustrations

Postby Rope-Pusher » Tue Dec 20, 2016 3:09 pm

Sort of a belt-n-susensors solution?
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