Fiesta Frustrations

Synchros shot? Weird noises while shifting? Not sure what needs to be replaced?
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Squint
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Fiesta Frustrations

Postby Squint » Sat Jun 18, 2016 10:40 pm

Prepare for a small wall of text. Story time!

A few months back, the front right tire of the Fiesta went completely flat in the parking lot at work. I flipped to the spare that evening after work, then took it to Goodyear where they do free tire repair (is that common of most big tire chains now?) to get it fixed. They took an hour or two and said it was the inner bead with a leak, fixed it, and gave it back. Some time shortly thereafter, the tire pressure sensor light went on, meaning that the tire pressure monitor was not functioning properly on a wheel. I had a pretty good guess it was that wheel, but nothing confirmed. I just rolled with it for a while, checking tire pressure once a week or so and filling up when necessary.

Yesterday, after work, I arrived home and realized my front right tire was only half full at best. So I decided I'd call Goodyear and set up an appointment for this morning to get it fixed again. It's a good thing I'd planned on that, because this morning it was completely flat. So I went in to the store some time before noon, dropped the car off, and we ran other errands with my parents for miscellaneous things. A couple of hours later, they called and told me they replaced the TPMS on that wheel as it was dead when they tested it (I'd authorized that in the store when I arrived) - and fixed the wheel - but they found something else with the serpentine belt they wanted to show me.

We arrived back at the place, where the store manager, who happened to be working the counter took me out front and showed me the belt. It was definitely starting to fray, but didn't seem too bad. He told me that on an area that wasn't currently visible, the belt was fraying in the middle, and warned me to take care of it quickly if I wasn't going to have them do it. As my dad has replaced many a belt before, we declined the $140 service ($70 belt, rest in fees, taxes, and labor) and started to bring it to my dad's house to work on it. Unfortunately, two stop lights down the road, I was listening closely to the vehicle and it started to drastically change, so I pulled off the road into a shopping center parking lot and turned it off to check the belt. It was half gone at that point, so I called my parents in the other vehicle and they came back to pick us up. We all went home, dropped off everyone else, and my dad and I grabbed tools to head to the Advanced Auto that had the belt. $40 later, we had the belt and had looked up some basic instructions for the vehicle. However, turns out the Fiesta is a bit of a unicorn and doesn't have a tensioner for the serpentine belt - it's just a stretch belt that only goes around 4 things total.

It also turns out that the tools that are designed to help install those styles of belts don't exist anywhere either. Two hours and three different parts store later, we finally got it to work following these directions and using the zip tie redneck version that Dayco had linked in a help section (they are the manufacturer). Turned on the car, seemed to be running fine so I went to drive it home.

Now the bad part. It seems like the car decided to just lose half of its power. At idle, the tach reads ~800 like normal, but listening to the car, it sounds like the exhaust system was partially disconnected or something. The car is louder, and it just doesn't respond like normal at anything higher than 1500 RPM. Starting from a stop is fairly normal, but accelerating just shows it decided to not have any power anymore. I had to downshift to 2nd at 3500 RPM (which made the engine sound like it was screaming compared to normal behavior) so I could manage to climb a hill I usually went up in 4th gear at 2000 RPM. I was losing so much speed I turned on the emergency flashers and pulled off the road into a parking lot to make sure it wasn't going to die on me. The next odd thing I noticed is that the engine idle, while sounding normal in the car and looking normal on the tach, seems a bit rough when opening up the hood. The third odd thing is that when I turned the car off when I got it home, it made an electric clicking sound under the hood 12-15 times in a few seconds. The last weird thing that happened is that the Traction Stability Control system decided to turn itself off. And I couldn't turn it back on using the car's control.

I'm at a bit of a loss on what this could be. I'm tempted to unplug the battery and reset the car's computer completely so make sure it isn't some electronic thing that is messed up from us manually cranking the crank shaft as instructed by the manual. Any thoughts on what it might be and what I can do to fix it? I'll take it to a shop if I have to, but I'd rather work on it from home - obviously. Thanks in advance.
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IMBoring25
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Re: Fiesta Frustrations

Postby IMBoring25 » Sat Jun 18, 2016 11:31 pm

Are you sure you got all of the zip tie out once the belt was installed?

I don't foresee any harm disconnecting the battery. Cars are computerized enough anymore that you can get all kinds of gremlins if the systems were delivered some weird transient voltages while the belt was coming apart.

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Re: Fiesta Frustrations

Postby Squint » Sat Jun 18, 2016 11:33 pm

IMBoring25 wrote:Are you sure you got all of the zip tie out once the belt was installed?

I don't foresee any harm disconnecting the battery. Cars are computerized enough anymore that you can get all kinds of gremlins if the systems were delivered some weird transient voltages while the belt was coming apart.

Yes, they are actually reusable zip ties, so the whole thing came off when we disconnected it. I should note the clicking sound doesn't seem to happen while idling when I just opened up the hood to look at it. It just seemed to happen on engine shut off.

EDIT: Should add, no check engine lights or any other dash lights... besides TSC being turned off. Which is weird, since it auto defaults to on when the car is restarted. But it was off each of the three times I started the vehicle.
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Re: Fiesta Frustrations

Postby tankinbeans » Sun Jun 19, 2016 4:02 am

Left field idea: was the system reset by Goodyear? I could see the car thinking the tire is flat and throwing wonky errors is the sensors aren't properly calibrated. Doesn't TSC take its info from ABS, which is passive in Fords and directly related to tire pressure.?
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Re: Fiesta Frustrations

Postby Squint » Sun Jun 19, 2016 8:44 am

tankinbeans wrote:Left field idea: was the system reset by Goodyear? I could see the car thinking the tire is flat and throwing wonky errors is the sensors aren't properly calibrated. Doesn't TSC take its info from ABS, which is passive in Fords and directly related to tire pressure.?

It might, though the couple of months of driving with the TPMS being broken in one wheel and then not having any issues makes me think not. Granted, the current problem(s) certainly make me think they are related, and I don't know if Goodyear reset it or not. I don't know if that is required for TPMS fixing. I can tell you they just saw the belt damage, because the guy talked to me about a noise potentially being the tensioner pulley... And I don't have one of those.
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Re: Fiesta Frustrations

Postby Rope-Pusher » Sun Jun 19, 2016 12:06 pm

"That Thang got a Hammy?

I meant to ask if the Fiasco has toothed belt driving the camshaft(s)"

If the cam timing were off a tooth, it could show the symptoms you are experiencing. If you are lucky, the cam is just "en retard" (I read this term here on this site - it means it got dropped on its head when it was a child). If you are not so lucky, the pistons and the valves have been "doin the bump" and your valves might be bent and not sealing. Good luck. Hope it's not expensive to ficks.
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Re: Fiesta Frustrations

Postby Squint » Sun Jun 19, 2016 1:44 pm

Rope-Pusher wrote:"That Thang got a Hammy?

I meant to ask if the Fiasco has toothed belt driving the camshaft(s)"

If the cam timing were off a tooth, it could show the symptoms you are experiencing. If you are lucky, the cam is just "en retard" (I read this term here on this site - it means it got dropped on its head when it was a child). If you are not so lucky, the pistons and the valves have been "doin the bump" and your valves might be bent and not sealing. Good luck. Hope it's not expensive to ficks.

This is the belt that drives it http://www.daycoproducts.com/dayco®-ela®-belt . I'm going to test it after I disconnect the battery for a bit this afternoon. Then I'll probably try to put it up on jacks so I can watch the CRANK [not cam]shaft from the bottom (far easier to see) .

Also, wouldn't I notice really rough idle if the timing was off? It's maybe a little rough, but I don't think it's that crazy. I also found this as a suggestion for why the TCS lights are staying on: http://www.fiestafaction.com/forums/thr ... -Lights-On so I am going to look at wiring and make sure nothing got disconnected then attempt to figure out where wheel speed sensor is.

EDITED to correct cam shaft to CRANK shaft
Last edited by Squint on Tue Jun 21, 2016 3:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Fiesta Frustrations

Postby theholycow » Sun Jun 19, 2016 2:55 pm

It sounds to me like someone nudged an ignition wire/coil/connector and a cylinder is not firing, but that would have to throw a code and set the check engine light.

Since you were monkeying around with crankshaft position, maybe it could be a crankshaft position sensor (again, probably just a connector that got nudged). Those tend to do weird stuff. Also potentially at stake and known to cause weirdness, coolant temperature sensor.

I'd try to get a list of all sensors and connectors then start checking them one by one to make sure everything is fully plugged in.
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Re: Fiesta Frustrations

Postby Squint » Sun Jun 19, 2016 6:04 pm

I just reset the battery and checked again. This time it does have a CEL,but it still was idling a bit roughly and made the ticking sound for a few seconds after I shut it off. Also, new problem, it didn't want to turn on for a couple of times before it finally caught on the third try.

However, now that it finally threw a CEL, I'm going to borrow my dad's OBDII reader and see what code it is giving.

It's certainly plausible that while messing with computer stuff for the TPMS, they might have nudged something that threw timing out of whack.

EDIT: I did get a video of the sound it made and the rough idling. Would that be of any value to anyone?
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Re: Fiesta Frustrations

Postby theholycow » Mon Jun 20, 2016 6:27 am

Squint wrote:It's certainly plausible that while messing with computer stuff for the TPMS, they might have nudged something that threw timing out of whack.

I was thinking serpentine belt struggle. TPMS is probably done from the driver's seat with the hood closed.
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Re: Fiesta Frustrations

Postby Squint » Mon Jun 20, 2016 12:16 pm

theholycow wrote:
Squint wrote:It's certainly plausible that while messing with computer stuff for the TPMS, they might have nudged something that threw timing out of whack.

I was thinking serpentine belt struggle. TPMS is probably done from the driver's seat with the hood closed.

Ah gotcha, misunderstood.

Serpentine belt struggle was mostly under the car and not really near many wires. I did check last night for any unplugged wires, checked to make sure everything seemed to still be plugged in, and that it didn't appear that anything got damaged when the old belt partially disintegrated. I'm getting an OBDII reader from a friend at work, I'll post once I find out the codes from the CEL.
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Re: Fiesta Frustrations

Postby watkins » Mon Jun 20, 2016 3:50 pm

What does timing have to do with the serp belt? I'm pretty sure theres no such thing as a modern car that uses the accessory drive for cam drive.
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Re: Fiesta Frustrations

Postby Squint » Tue Jun 21, 2016 3:17 am

watkins wrote:What does timing have to do with the serp belt? I'm pretty sure theres no such thing as a modern car that uses the accessory drive for cam drive.

Belt only goes on alternator, coolant pump, idler pulley, and crank shaft according to manual linked above.
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Re: Fiesta Frustrations

Postby theholycow » Tue Jun 21, 2016 4:26 pm

watkins wrote:What does timing have to do with the serp belt? I'm pretty sure theres no such thing as a modern car that uses the accessory drive for cam drive.

Sometimes you follow the leads from the customer's stories, sometimes you follow the symptoms. Can't always just do one of those options.
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Re: Fiesta Frustrations

Postby Squint » Thu Jun 23, 2016 3:50 pm

Borrowed a OBDII from a guy at work. Reading 3 codes:

P0016 - Crankshaft position, Camshaft position correlation bank 1 sensor A.

P0365 - Camshaft position sensor B circuit (bank 1)

P0340 - Camshaft position sensor A circuit (bank 1 or single sensor).

The question now becomes, does the car think the timing is off so is putting the car into safe mode and not allowing power and the sensors are just broken or not communicating properly?

Or is the timing actually off?

Or third idea from anyone else? It seems there isn't a ton of Fiesta maintenance help to be found online through Google - perhaps the car is too new for too many overhauls by people?
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'14 Giant Escape City 24MT
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