*New Language, Context, & Attitude (Now in Effect)*

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*New Language, Context, & Attitude (Now in Effect)*

Postby Johnf514 » Wed Jul 30, 2008 11:39 am

*Please read completely*

Introduction
In the past we have attempted to clean up the language, context (how words are used in a sentence) and attitudes towards other posters on the Standardshift forum. The past attempts have been more of a self-governing system, with the rules being publicly displayed and the hope that members would police their own posts.

This has effectively failed.

We are now implementing a "three-strike" policy in regards to language, context, and attitude on SS.


Section I
First let me define "language, context, and attitude"

Inappropriate language includes bypassing the swear filter (i.e., sh1t, f*ck, etc.), using slang terms for body parts (i.e., tits, dick, etc.), and using words that are known to carry a bad meaning (i.e., Jap, Kraut, etc.).

Appropriate use of profanity may read something like this: "what the hell happened to your car?" or "the damn thing broke in my hands." As long as this is not abused, this is permissible.

It should also be noted that images with language or inappropriate visuals of a pornographic (or suggestively pornographic nature), hatred towards races or religions, or directed in an "offensive" manner towards a member will also be included in this policy.

Context includes how the profanity or words with a bad meaning are used. For example, "go to hell, screenname123" is inappropriate. ". . . because he is (insert race)" is also inappropriate.

Finally, attitudes. This is more difficult to define. I understand that not everyone will get along in life. What I ask is two things: 1) you do not "call someone out." For example, if you make a post that is blatantly enticing someone to fight (not argue, but fight), you will be warned. 2) If you respond to an someone trying to make you fight. You both will be warned. All you have to do is PM a mod if someone is being inappropriate or displaying a bad attitude towards you.


Section II
What follows is the policy:

Starting Friday Aug. 1st (posting date), the first time we see the aforementioned inappropriate kinds of language, context & attitudes, the member will receive a warning and a message explaining why. The message will review our 3-strike policy and tell the member the next step is a temp-ban.

If the poster repeats the offense, we will issue a temporary ban. Depending on the offense, this ban will be anywhere from a few days to over a week. The member will be sent a PM explaining our 3-strike policy and that the next step is a permanent ban.

The third and last offense will be a permanent ban. Yup - it's harsh, but two warnings are plenty. There is no 4th strike. The member is permanently banned. No if's, and's, or but's. There will be no "I didn't know about the policy" pleas.


Section III
If you have any questions, suggestions, or concerns about this policy, please post them in this thread. I will leave this announcement opened only to questions/suggestions - all other posts will be deleted. I understand that some of you will find this policy too harsh. Unfortunately, the time for self-reform has passed and this policy is deemed necessary.

In my opinion, the attractiveness of SS is the fact that it is a "safe haven" from a lot of the offensiveness of the internet. We want to keep it this way. Remember, the words you say are only heard, but the words you type are written into the internet and represent not only yourself, but the community of which you are a part. Please keep that in mind.

We are here to assist beginners in their learning of a manual transmission and to actively promote passion and community among driving standard shift. :)

Thank you,
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Re: *New Language, Context, & Attitude Policy on Standardshift*

Postby watkins » Wed Jul 30, 2008 12:12 pm

I feel like this is going to get out of hand, and very quickly.

Words like crap, damn, ass, and hell are not swears. If 6th graders use them, then I feel that we have every right to as well. Stronger language like sh*t and f*ck being filtered is fine. We all know what the replacement words really are. As for the filter, all legitimate biological names should be removed from the filter. Penis is not a swear, and not offensive unless someone is a prude or has never taken sex ed. On that note, do we get a wrist slap for using said words without going around the filter? I do agree that derogatory terms should be mostly eliminated, though some circumstances should be allowed, such as Polish jokes etc in the joke thread. Unless someone specifically comes out and claims offence, those should be left alone.

The same is true of images. Unless someone claims specific offence, let them be. Unless, of course, they are overly visually sexual. If its a motivational poster with a sexual reference, for example, chances are most younger readers may not even understand the joke.

Other things of note:
Current content - dont delete things that may be in offence of the policy. As older material, they do not fall within the required time field for the new rules. Also, many said posts are also very informative. If anything, PM the offending poster with a link to the post, and have him/her edit it on his/her own so it still has the correct context. I still recomend not touching them however.

Most importantly in my mind is truth and order. Without very, very, very specific rules and policies set up, I promise you someone will call mod power abuse. Make every detail known to the public, or this board will go to pot and many regular members will leave.

I would also like to see input on this from the other mods. Is everyone in 100% agreement with this policy and its intricacies? If not, work on it until you all are or do not put it into play.
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Re: *New Language, Context, & Attitude Policy on Standardshift*

Postby Nychold » Wed Jul 30, 2008 12:23 pm

I'm personally in agreement with this policy, but not quite clear on what constitutes circumventing the swear filter. I can understand how f*ck is circumventing it, but how far does this go? Would f* count? (I use that when I say 'eff', so the f*ing thing is actually the 'effing' thing.) Also, I agree with Watkins that there needs to be a bit more definition on which words are considered bad, at least from the standpoint of 'profanity'.
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Re: *New Language, Context, & Attitude Policy on Standardshift*

Postby AHTOXA » Wed Jul 30, 2008 12:30 pm

I'm not clear on the definition of 'profanity' here either, please elaborate. The guidelines need to be very clear or as watkins said, this will get out of hand real fast.
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Re: *New Language, Context, & Attitude Policy on Standardshift*

Postby jomotopia » Wed Jul 30, 2008 12:35 pm

the mods are in agreement.

how about this: just type what you want to say and don't filter anything yourself, let the built in filter take care of it, and then you won't have to worry about anything.

or better yet, figure out how to express yourselves without using the filtered words at all.
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Re: *New Language, Context, & Attitude Policy on Standardshift*

Postby Nychold » Wed Jul 30, 2008 12:53 pm

Also, how would sexual innuendo be classified? IE: my signature. (I'm happy to change it to comply, but just need to know. :D)
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Re: *New Language, Context, & Attitude Policy on Standardshift*

Postby watkins » Wed Jul 30, 2008 2:02 pm

jomotopia wrote:or better yet, figure out how to express yourselves without using the filtered words at all.

Easily done. I rarely swear in intelligent conversation. Trying to make a point by swearing makes a person look like an idiot.
However I, and I know several others, would like some specifications and modifications. This is not the first time the filter has been discussed, and things should really be changed. Penis is not a swear. F*ck is. They should not both be under filtration.

And as for nitpicking, without a thorough pick of the nits, there is often far too much room for both objective and subjective error. If theres going to be a strict set of rules, make them strict and well known. If not, make way for some democratic compromises. Loosely framed rules lead to problems no matter where in the grand scheme of things they are. Infants on the terrorist watch list? Poorly designed rules are to blame. Clearly nothing so serious can happen on our level, but we're almost a family on here, and last I checked, we tend to look out for each other and try to keep things fair. All I really want from this is to see things fair for all of us.
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Re: *New Language, Context, & Attitude Policy on Standardshift*

Postby Prodigal Son » Wed Jul 30, 2008 2:33 pm

watkins wrote:Penis is not a swear. F*ck is.


Not necessarily. p____ can be used as a swear word. So can "screw". If you filter, you have to use a reasonable heuristic, not a strict rule. On a driving forum, chances are the you will need to use the word "screw" in an on topic conversation from time to time. Chances that you will need to use p____ in an on topic conversation are remote. So you filter p____ and not "screw".

watkins wrote:If theres going to be a strict set of rules, make them strict and well known.


It simply cannot work that way. As the old saying goes, I can't define obscenity, but I know it when I see it. What the mods are trying to do here is to return civility to the forum. That can't be done with strict definitions. If people don't know what civility is, or how to hold a civil conversation, they have two strikes in which to learn. If they can't learn to be civil, they don't belong here.

watkins wrote:we're almost a family on here


No we're not. I realize that for teens, in a state of rebellion against their families, it is common to create a kind of second family with your peers. But we all grow out of that. I'm a grandfather. I know who my family is, and it not a bunch of pseudonymous posters on a forum. Calling this a family does not serve to include people but to exclude them. In any case, families often treat each other horribly.

We are colleagues brought together by a common interest. The level of civility required in a work environment is more approrpriate than that found in the home, especially since the level of civility and respect in a home can vary so widely.
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Re: *New Language, Context, & Attitude Policy on Standardshift*

Postby watkins » Wed Jul 30, 2008 3:09 pm

Prodigal Son wrote:
watkins wrote:Penis is not a swear. F*ck is.


Not necessarily. p____ can be used as a swear word. So can "screw". If you filter, you have to use a reasonable heuristic, not a strict rule. On a driving forum, chances are the you will need to use the word "screw" in an on topic conversation from time to time. Chances that you will need to use p____ in an on topic conversation are remote. So you filter p____ and not "screw".

So when would penis ever be used for anything? Almost never on here. And no, it is not a swear. It is an anitomic name. Just like vagina. Or how about elbow? And Im very offended by spleen.
"Screw" is not a swear either. In its vulgar form, it is a slang term. Some words are definitely swears, regardless of the use. F*uck falls into this category. So do more offensive terms.

Prodigal Son wrote:
watkins wrote:If theres going to be a strict set of rules, make them strict and well known.


It simply cannot work that way. As the old saying goes, I can't define obscenity, but I know it when I see it. What the mods are trying to do here is to return civility to the forum. That can't be done with strict definitions. If people don't know what civility is, or how to hold a civil conversation, they have two strikes in which to learn. If they can't learn to be civil, they don't belong here.

It can very well work that way. At least for a great deal of situations. Like the swear filter. Thats well known. More definition is good.
What about something that is "sexual in nature"? Does a picture of a female with large breasts count? Breasts are certainly sexual. But no, It wouldnt unless said female was scantily clad in a clearly provocative manner, or posed in such a way as to clearly suggest sexual intentions.
There are ways to be more specific. If I am to be governed, I like to know exactly how.

Prodigal Son wrote:
watkins wrote:we're almost a family on here


No we're not. I realize that for teens, in a state of rebellion against their families, it is common to create a kind of second family with your peers. But we all grow out of that. I'm a grandfather. I know who my family is, and it not a bunch of pseudonymous posters on a forum. Calling this a family does not serve to include people but to exclude them. In any case, families often treat each other horribly.

We are colleagues brought together by a common interest. The level of civility required in a work environment is more approrpriate than that found in the home, especially since the level of civility and respect in a home can vary so widely.

Maybe you dont feel a close bond to us. Thats been made clearly obvious in the past. But many other members feel or have close friendships, a common element of a family-esque situation. Note also that I said almost like a family. Though, according to this definition from dictionary.com, we are:
a group of people who are generally not blood relations but who share common attitudes, interests, or goals and, frequently, live together

You say yourself that we share common interests.

This also has nothing to do with rebellion. It has to do with friendship. If you grew out of friendship, then may God have mercy on your soul.
I consider this to be my online home, and the members here my online family. Just as I consider my friends from years ago my family. Does it mean the exact same as lineage? No, but as they teach on Sesame Street, families come in all kinds, shapes, and sizes.
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Re: *New Language, Context, & Attitude Policy on Standardshift*

Postby AHTOXA » Wed Jul 30, 2008 3:23 pm

I am starting to worry that with all this discussion we are dividing ourselves even further. People start taking sides here and it's not a good thing. Let's just set rules that majority agrees with. I'm sure we're all reasonable here and can agree that a little more control may be needed here. Let's get this straight before people will get offended, members will leave and banhammers start swinging.
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Re: *New Language, Context, & Attitude Policy on Standardshift*

Postby jomotopia » Wed Jul 30, 2008 3:26 pm

maybe i'm missing something or maybe i'm just stupid, but i believe the rules HAVE already been defined in the first post of this thread.

here is a simplified version:

1> Do not bypass the swear filter in any way, shape, or form.

2> Do not use racial slurs or other derogatory terms.

3> Do not attack other members or call them names.

4> Do not post sexually explicit things. Case by case basis, PG-13 rating.

I don't see how it can get much more defined and simple than that.

"pen*s" is filtered to be "fireman" not because of the word itself but b/c of Paolo and his "unique" way of greeting new members.
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Re: *New Language, Context, & Attitude Policy on Standardshift*

Postby watkins » Wed Jul 30, 2008 3:35 pm

Im in favor of the rules put forth, but with some minor modifications, and since this thread was supposed to be for questions and suggestions (the matter of which people have completely ignored), heres a new one:

I think that there should be some form of public service policy for 2nd strike offenders. Some way to have one strike removed for good behavior or something, though no way to remove a first strike no matter what. Perhaps writing a detailed article on one of our oft discussed noob questions, or on some automotive technology.
Not only would people be more likely to watch what they post, but we could end up with quite the assortment of very useful references.
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Re: *New Language, Context, & Attitude Policy on Standardshift*

Postby Johnf514 » Wed Jul 30, 2008 4:38 pm

jomotopia wrote:maybe i'm missing something or maybe i'm just stupid, but i believe the rules HAVE already been defined in the first post of this thread.
here is a simplified version:
1> Do not bypass the swear filter in any way, shape, or form.
2> Do not use racial slurs or other derogatory terms.
3> Do not attack other members or call them names.
4> Do not post sexually explicit things. Case by case basis, PG-13 rating.
I don't see how it can get much more defined and simple than that.
"pen*s" is filtered to be "fireman" not because of the word itself but b/c of Paolo and his "unique" way of greeting new members.


This is dead nuts on - there really isn't much more to explain. If you aren't sure about something (a word, image, etc.), don't post it. Run it by one of the mods and we would be happy to approve/disapprove it for you.

The three strikes stand as they are. If you get a strike, fine. Don't do it again. That's why you have three. We understand people make mistakes.
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Re: *New Language, Context, & Attitude Policy on Standardshift*

Postby Johnf514 » Wed Jul 30, 2008 4:43 pm

watkins wrote:This also has nothing to do with rebellion. It has to do with friendship. If you grew out of friendship, then may God have mercy on your soul.
I consider this to be my online home, and the members here my online family. Just as I consider my friends from years ago my family. Does it mean the exact same as lineage? No, but as they teach on Sesame Street, families come in all kinds, shapes, and sizes.


I really like this post. I feel as if Standardshift is a family as well. Maybe not in the traditional sense, but we are a great little community to be a part of. And that is why we want our very public community to appear inviting, mature, and organized to those interested in joining.
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Re: *New Language, Context, & Attitude Policy on Standardshift*

Postby Johnf514 » Wed Jul 30, 2008 4:46 pm

AHTOXA wrote:Let's get this straight before people will get offended, members will leave and banhammers start swinging.


That is exactly why I posted this announcement today and not on the day of implementation of the new policy. I want our members to understand that we are working with them to make this community a better place. I don't want to ban those who act in a disrespectful, immature, or explicit manner. Unfortunately, they will ban themselves from the site if the behavior continues.

Do you have consequences in real life if you swear in front of people, show inappropriate parts of your body, or use racial slurs. I know if you don't now, you eventually will.
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