Project Christine slo Hackensteinberg

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theholycow
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Re: Project Christine slo Hackensteinberg

Postby theholycow » Sat Apr 02, 2016 10:01 am

This project isn't a sure thing yet, but I'm considering it a whole lot more seriously than I have in the past.

I spent the rest of yesterday googling and I feel a little better about mounting. I found at least one example where someone did it in my style, apparently no budget and lame skills, quite successfully - he even has added a turbo (so it's handling a ton more power) and put 15,000 miles in 2.5 years with no indication that he has replaced his cow-style hack mounts with a commercial or professionally-fabricated improvement:
http://ls1tech.com/forums/conversions-h ... ost9412333
Not sure if the image will embed, but:
Image

Basically there's nothing much to it, just a flat plate with some bolts (countersunk if you want it to be pretty, or not countersunk if it is to be hacky like that guy's was and mine will be) and it may just mount right up to existing mounts or may need me to relocate them a bit...his original engine was not the same as mine even though his frame is.

Of course I also feel a little worse about other things...

The V8 demands a stronger transmission. I could get a 5 speed from a V8 pickup at the junkyard. I really really want a T56 but its shifter location would sprout right through my bench seat. There is an "inspection cover" over the internal shift rod in a decent spot at the front of the tailhousing where it meets the main housing, which I suspect was really just leftover in the design or a modified casting mold, or maybe they originally planned for front shifters too.

Anyway, there is a front shifter relocation modification where you cut the rod and install a thingy:
Image
The thingy is expensive. However, it looks an awful lot like the OEM thingy in the T5. I wonder if I can hack/adapt it. Else, an external relocation might be possible. I have a T5 offset shifter assembly (which I'm not using) that might be adapted, or perhaps a rod linkage might be possible. Still I prefer to have the shifter be more direct and less complex if possible. I might have to start trolling junkyards for a T56 for experimentation purposes.

There are other issues that have me concerned but this post is getting too long.

In my bookmarks from the last time I looked at this project I found this thread with excellent photos of the frame, engine bay, and car fully disassembled...and, using Chrome, entertaining translations from Russian:
http://freedomcars.ru/iboard/index.php?showtopic=54989
Now there's someone with the skills and motivation to do a beautiful job despite being severely disadvantaged in resources!
Image
I wonder how it turned out. The thread lacks closure. Edit: No it doesn't, and here's why I originally found it...he put in a 5.3 too: http://ls1tech.com/forums/conversions-h ... st18217176
Edit edit: No, wait...he popped up and disappeared there, without closure. I should see if I can make contact.
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Re: Project Christine slo Hackensteinberg

Postby theholycow » Tue Apr 05, 2016 1:02 pm

Can anyone with engine swap experience recommend a good place to read up on it? I'm drowning in information. I think I know a lot of what I need to know but I'd like to check a soup-to-nuts reference to confirm and sanity-check my basic plan.

Here's an approximate, basic overview of what the plan would be if I go forward:

    1. Acquire and prepare T56. Acquire appropriate LM7 clutch stuff. Plan and modify as necessary for clutch integration and shifter location/angle.

    2. Remove 4.1 from Buick and LM7 from donor GMC.
      a. Remove front clip and hood (can I skip removing front clip and sneak engine/trans out/in on an angle? Probably not.).
      b. Disconnect/unbolt allTheThings.
      c. Lift engine out.
    3. Clean/maintain/prepare LM7 and mount T56 to LM7.

    4. Take advantage of easy working with engine removed to clean engine bay, replace front brake lines/suspension/steering stuff, prepare engine bay, etc.

    5. Dangle LM7+T56 assembly in engine bay and take/plan measurements.
      a. Oil pan clearance to subframe and ground.
      b. Hood clearance for intake and FEAD (Front End Accessory Drive, as in, serpentine belt and the stuff that it runs).
      c. Fore/aft position for shifter location, weight distribution, transmission->crossmember mount, tunnel clearance, and driveshaft length.
      d. Driveline angle.
      e. Exhaust clearance (this will likely be a guess, or not even a guess and just wait until it's too late).
      f. Cooling fan/shroud/radiator clearance.
    6. FEAD modifications if necessary for clearance.
    7. "Engineer" and "fabricate" adapters/mounts...such as I do.
    8. Bolt LM7+T56 in.
    9. Engine bay wiring and plumbing - harness, fuel lines, emissions, etc.
    10. Fuel storage/delivery. (Can actually do this step almost any time.)
    11. Plumbing for exhaust and intake.
    12. Button it up and test.
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Re: Project Christine slo Hackensteinberg

Postby IMBoring25 » Tue Apr 05, 2016 1:43 pm

With the tranny attached the engine will naturally hang at an angle from the hoist. We did mine with all the sheet metal in place but we only did the truck half of the swap and not with a tranny as long as a T56.

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Re: Project Christine slo Hackensteinberg

Postby potownrob » Tue Apr 05, 2016 9:53 pm

bk7794 wrote:Glad to see she lives. Time to open up and rebuild the S10 T5.
ground control to major bk (where'd you go??)
BUT DEM FAHGLEITZ!! :shock:

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Re: Project Christine slo Hackensteinberg

Postby Rope-Pusher » Tue Apr 05, 2016 10:19 pm

It's as simple as this:
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Re: Project Christine slo Hackensteinberg

Postby tankinbeans » Wed Apr 06, 2016 9:10 am

The donor car has to be named Arnie because you're going to murderdeathkill him.
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Re: Project Christine slo Hackensteinberg

Postby potownrob » Thu Apr 07, 2016 12:51 am

Rope-Pusher wrote:It's as simple as this:
https://youtu.be/IjGHwGkFIFw

thickset
BUT DEM FAHGLEITZ!! :shock:

For Pizza!!!!

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Re: Project Christine slo Hackensteinberg

Postby theholycow » Thu Apr 07, 2016 8:58 am

I didn't forget that it is difficult/expensive to acquire a T56, but I guess I forgot just how difficult/expensive it is. I've been checking my usual sources and the only thing even close to realistic (if a project I'll do first to make money pans out well) is a $900 one from a non-self-service junkyard (so it will probably not have all the ancillary stuff included). I'll keep trying to score one that I can actually get but I guess I need an alternate plan.

Potential alternate transmission plans:

1. Reuse my existing Astro T5. The Astro 4.3's bellhousing that came on it should bolt up, though it might possibly be twisted to angle the shifter differently than desired (according to one post I read), though that might be acceptable anyway. However, I suspect a problem with this T5, it makes a bit of a racket. I first noticed it a couple months ago while idling; if I step on the clutch it quiets down. Maybe input shaft bearing or something internal on that shaft. Also, of course, the NWC T5 is rated kinda low for this purpose.

2. Use my existing tail housing with a WC T5, which may be slightly easier to find than the T56.

3. 5 speed NV3500 from a GM truck with a 4.8. These are easy to find may be stronger than any T5 despite having the same rating, and they were OEM with the identical (except for stroke) 4.8. I could grab the 4.8 while I'm at it; I kinda want that instead of my 5.3 anyway (may be slightly more rev-happy and power is still more than I need, and hopefully it would have fewer miles on it) and it would only be another $120, total $240...or for $500 I could buy a donor truck and keep my truck intact to plow my driveway for another couple years. Unlike a T5, and like the T56, speedometer output would be incompatible, not a major concern for me but a minor one.

Any other easy/inexpensive ideas for transmissions to bolt to a LS-series engine with a bench seat compatible forward shifter location?
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Re: Project Christine slo Hackensteinberg

Postby theholycow » Sun Jul 03, 2016 8:03 am

Lately I've had intermittent driveability symptoms and starting problems. Last week I had a day where it just refused to crank but I was able to bump start, and then it stalled while cruising at a steady speed and wouldn't even bump start. It got towed home.

Yesterday I pulled the starter, tested it myself, and had it tested at two stores: Dead. I inspected the ignition coil: Melted.

I suspect that it's just coincidence, but just in case, who can think of a common cause of both failures? The only thing I can think of is the ignition switch but I can't imagine how.
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Re: Project Christine slo Hackensteinberg

Postby theholycow » Mon Jul 04, 2016 2:36 pm

Saturday when I took my starter to be tested, the two stores didn't have one. Well, one store had one but it was DOA, they tested it before selling it (thanks Autozone, that would have been a disaster). I decided not to drive too far for one and tried to decide whether to try to fix the old one or buy a new one on Rockauto.

Well, Rockauto didn't have a decent price, strangely enough. Even Autozone/Advance beat them. All of them were in the $45-55 range. Then I checked Pep Boys and they had it for $30 after a 20% off promotion, with lifetime warranty. Score! Picked it up Sunday.

I thought taking it out was annoying...putting it in was way worse. It's huge and heavy compared to an average starter (Pep Boys girl remarked about it and asked why it was so huge), the bolts hang directly upside-down, and it's kinda tough to wrestle into position but easy to fall out of position. I used a jack as a third hand to hold it up. It had some shims that I figured I needed based on visual comparison of pinion position (actually, thinking about it now, I'm not sure those shims face in the appropriate direction for that purpose) and I crimped one of the shims to hold the more difficult bolt captive. Then I tediously got it in place. I kept losing bolts and sockets and such (hooray for working on grass/dirt) and worrying that it would fall on my head while I was searching. Altogether it took at least a couple hours.

I finally got it all back together and I kinda surprised that it worked. The new starter works great.

Unfortunately, even having replaced the coil, there's no spark. I figured the electronic ignition module might have fried from the coil melt's heat; it's supposedly somewhat heat-sensitive. I tried replacing it with a spare but that didn't help. I ran out of time and couldn't proceed to do all the proper testing...I'll have to do it another day. I think I posted some links in this thread a few years ago for DIY ignition diagnostics with a multimeter and such but if not I have them bookmarked or saved somewhere.
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Re: Project Christine slo Hackensteinberg

Postby theholycow » Mon Jul 04, 2016 7:59 pm

I found some time and began diagnostic tests on the ignition system. Then I broke the pickup coil's connector. I was going to crimp some female slide connectors on in its place but I only have one left...usually I have dozens. That killed my morale - though it's not like I could have continued if my morale was undamaged.

I kinda wanna just buy a complete set of distributor electrical guts. They're not very expensive.
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Re: Project Christine slo Hackensteinberg

Postby watkins » Mon Jul 04, 2016 10:23 pm

theholycow wrote:Pep Boys girl remarked about it and asked why it was so huge

:wink:
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Re: Project Christine slo Hackensteinberg

Postby theholycow » Mon Nov 14, 2016 11:23 am

I wasted my weekend and a bunch of money.

tl;dr: Even when you've tested the basic stuff, don't assume the basic stuff isn't at fault.

Long story:

Two years ago I had a new gas tank put in to replace a leaky one. I should have done it myself but I was lazy. Immediately I found that it had to be trickle-filled; running the pump anywhere north of ultra-slow would foam up, overflow, and shut off the pump. Of course the evap system is the first suspect, and mine has the canister at the front of the car, fed by 20 feet of hose to the tank. I took the hose off the canister and blew into it and it passed air; a little slow, sure, but it's 20 feet of hose around corners and such, one would expect it not to pass air as fast as a 3 foot section held in my hand.

I spent two years ultra-slowly filling it in cold weather, when I'm on a short deadline, whatever, just had to run the pump real slow. I monkeyed with the filler neck slightly from the gas cap opening and tried disconnecting the evap hose from the canister while filling, to no avail. Every time the tank was low I promised myself I'd work on it that weekend, and never did.

I suspected that the overengineered filler neck was at fault. It has unnecessary bends, and aiming the pump differently seemed to help increase the speed I could use. It had a baffle at the tank end, presumably to discourage siphoning and vandalistic insertion of objects, and it seemed like the baffle probably increased foaming.

Well I finally worked on it. With ramps and my Harbor Freight transmission jack (does this post seem like spam now?) it is a cakewalk of a job, one of the easiest things to work on. Use drill to bring jack up to height quickly, use impact wrench to take out the two readily accessible tank strap bolts, lower jack, unscrew two hose clamps with 1/4" ratcheting screwdriver, pull one wire connector, tank is now free of the car. I wish I had replaced it myself two years ago; I could have saved the old filler neck, plus I would have followed up immediately with fixing the fill problem at that time.

Dropped tank, inspected the tube that goes to that evap hose, found that it was restricted. Couldn't get a piece of wire through it. This system, despite its old-fashioned engine-mounted mechanical fuel pump, has a modern style tank pickup/gauge sender that sits in a hole on top with a lock ring. I pulled the sending unit and attacked the cover on the underside that prevents me from getting a good look at the vent tube entry, then found a pinhole restrictor in it. Persuaded restrictor out of there, then hacked the cover back in place with a self-tapping screw. Put it all back together, and went to try filling.

Nope. No better, pump still shutting off the same. Also, now my gauge has suddenly gone stuck on Full. I check the manual and determine that that means the circuit is open, not shorted, and assume that the mangled ground wire from the tank is at fault.

Drop tank again. Check all the wiring to the sender, everything looks good, so I fix up the ground wire. Then I attack that overengineered filler neck with a vengeance. I use my pipe cutter to cut it off a couple inches from the tank (hooray pipe cutter, no sparks) and find that it's even more overengineered than I thought. It has a steel rail, similar to a yardstick or a server mounting rail (for IT folks), inexplicably running through the entire length of the neck. It's welded to the pipe at the mouth end, but I had cut off the pipe at the tank end, so I had to secure its extra length to a solid object and yank, but yanking wasn't enough so I got a big lever in there and shoved until the accursed thing finally broke, leaving a wide open empty pipe for a filler neck.

I had planned to use a piece of scrap rubber filler hose saved from the old S10 but it was too rotted. Plan B was to cut a piece off of my GMC, which needs a new filler neck assembly anyway, but that seemed like a lot of trouble so I just went to the store. I wanted a 3 inch piece and a 16 inch piece but it turns out this stuff is $22/foot so I just bought a foot. I cut off 2 inches to use to scab the pipe to the tank's stub. While it was apart I also broke out the stupid baffle inside the tank at the end of the filler (which, it turns out, extends pretty far inside) by using a long breaker bar as a punch and hammering the hell out of it. (This morning I realized that I could have possibly done something more easily reaching in through the sender hole.) I inspected and carefully re-connected the gauge wire and ran the ground better.

I put it all back together and went to the gas station again. STILL no better!

So, back up onto the ramps, and this time I decide to test abandoning the evap vent hose. I loosen but don't drop the tank, just giving me enough room to disconnect and connect hoses. I have a short length of appropriate hose so I slip that on and route it up high and out of the way, leaving the end open.

Sure enough, now it fills almost like a regular car! Pump shut off halfway, just once, but I ran it at full speed and that's acceptable enough.

Now I have to drop the tank again to test that gauge sender with a multimeter, and probably buy a new sending unit ($33 at Rockauto, $42 at Amazon, $55 special order at stores) because I broke it. I still have to buy 25 feet of hose that was the problem the whole time. I've wasted $25 on filler neck hose and clamps, and my entire weekend, and I'll still have to spend half a day running that hose and dropping the tank to replace the sending unit.
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Re: Project Christine slo Hackensteinberg

Postby Rope-Pusher » Mon Nov 14, 2016 12:47 pm

Wow Cow, in the eyes of Thomas Edison, you just learned 100 ways how NOT to fix it. I'm sure that you have a swell brain now - beware of Zombies!.

So, as our resident expert on fueltankology, you can expect plenty of questions to be coming your way. Your first 100 days in office are going to be mighty interesting.
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Re: Project Christine slo Hackensteinberg

Postby Rope-Pusher » Mon Nov 14, 2016 12:58 pm

Did I ever tell you my Uncle's boat had a 3-foot long wooden stick as a standard equipment gas gage? I never recall them getting bad fuel-level readings, even when the 6-volt battery went dead. Oh and the controls for shift and throttle looked like this:
Image
Hung off the steering column, I think they came from a Ford Model T.

They used the spark lever for shifting.
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