1987 Cadillac Sedan DeVille

[Tinton]

HT stood for High Technology. For its time, the engine and its electronic control module (ECM) were quite sophisticated. Despite having a throttle body injection system (as opposed to port fuel injection), the HT4100 used an ECM that for the first time incorporated a detailed on-board computer. Every parameter of engine performance could be displayed on the heater control while the car was being driven. The HT4100 also pioneered other design features including removable cylinder sleeves, high operating temperature for emission control (210 degrees, compared to 180 in earlier engines), free circulation of coolant between the block and the heads, and bimetal construction that mounted heat-tolerant cast-iron heads onto a weight-saving aluminum block. The engine had a bore of 3.465 in (88 mm) and stroke of 3.307 in (84 mm), for a total displacement of 4.1 L (≈250 cu in). It initially was equipped with throttle-body fuel injection, with output of 135 hp (101 kW) at 4400 RPM and 190 lb·ft (258 N·m) of torque at 2000 RPM.

It wasn't that bad but it failed terribly. 135 hp and 190 tq from a 4.1L V8? and its got a fake carb (TBI ftl). Did the DeVille even have a tach? I think those engines redline at 4500 or 5000 or something crazy low like that.

The 4.9L Cadillac V8 engines, which are basically the same as that 4.1L but with different bore/stroke, are probably the most common cheap swap in Fieros. 200 hp and 275 tq, it'd be similar to driving a stock MR2 Turbo but with 275 tq and almost no revving. I never liked those Cadillac engines, they rev too low. I've never driven a Fiero with 1 swapped in though, who knows, it might be entertaining if I get the opportunity one day .

[PILL]

Plus the real column slushie column shift was interesting, rather than the approximations found on Town cars and Econoline vans today.

The good old fashioned linkage-operated column shifters feel GREAT. I have a 1980 Buick that my grandfather bought brand new and the feel of shifting it into D ranks right up there with the comfort as a reason why I like the car.

The only slushie gear selector that feels lamer than a modern column shifter is a pointless slushie console/floor shifter...and the only one worse than that is the same thing but mounted on the dash.

I hate column shifters. I much prefer floor shifter in a slushy.

[theholycow]

the HT4100 used an ECM that for the first time incorporated a detailed on-board computer. Every parameter of engine performance could be displayed on the heater control while the car was being driven.

This was so incredibly cool. To this day, if you want the same kind of live information from any other car, you have to spend a lot of money on equipment.

It wasn't that bad but it failed terribly. 135 hp and 190 tq from a 4.1L V8?

It was that bad, but the power wasn't a problem. The car was pretty light and all of the torque was right there at idle. Combined with tall gears, it kept up with its peers just fine. It was probably more like a diesel with that issue. As long as it was in a tall gear, it had power, and it felt like it could pull a train.

The reasons it was bad were sensor failure, longevity, and overheating (which IIRC risked warping the heads). After 170,000 miles it was suffering and difficult to troubleshoot even with the ECM telling me what was wrong. I guess 170,000 miles was a decent amount of mileage for a 1987 engine to be trouble free, but I expect more now.

and its got a fake carb (TBI ftl). Did the DeVille even have a tach? I think those engines redline at 4500 or 5000 or something crazy low like that.

TBI sucks now, but in 1987 it was great. It was easy to work on too, I suspect...you could take the whole fuel injection system off and work on it on the bench as easily as you could a carburetor (a few more wires but far fewer vacuum hoses). I hope to eventually TBI my Buick, should be an easy job and still provide the benefits I want.

Redline was very low and that's why with all that torque it was only good for 135hp. I never wanted it faster than 4000rpm. That car is probably the reason I so dislike high RPM and so enjoy lots of torque.

It did not have a tach on the dash (until you turned on the live sensor data display, which included RPM), and it had a very interesting speedometer that you may never have seen before. It was quite nice to look at. It was similar to this but nicer:

[theholycow]

I hate column shifters. I much prefer floor shifter in a slushy.

I'm curious....why? Is it more aesthetically pleasing, more comfortable, or more useful to you in some way? They're so popular but I've never understood why.

[watkins]

Column shifters suck to use. Every one Ive ever used involved having to use too much force, and missing whichever motion selection was intended the first try through

[theholycow]

Ok, that makes sense. Most of the ones I've used don't have that problem but I've probably used some that do.

[Tinton]

The reasons it was bad were sensor failure, longevity, and overheating (which IIRC risked warping the heads). After 170,000 miles it was suffering and difficult to troubleshoot even with the ECM telling me what was wrong. I guess 170,000 miles was a decent amount of mileage for a 1987 engine to be trouble free, but I expect more now.

I guess that's not bad for that car, but my '86 Fiero (1 year older) still runs fine and it almost has 170,000 miles. I also overheated it several times, iron heads and block FTW.

TBI sucks now, but in 1987 it was great. It was easy to work on too, I suspect...you could take the whole fuel injection system off and work on it on the bench as easily as you could a carburetor (a few more wires but far fewer vacuum hoses). I hope to eventually TBI my Buick, should be an easy job and still provide the benefits I want.

TBI has always been shitty. It is the simplest fuel injection system that you can put in a car. It also fails horribly when you try to make power with it. A Fiero guy was building up an Iron Duke not too long back on the Fiero forum and he was doing fine until the engine ran lean and broke a connecting rod because the TBI couldn't correctly distribute fuel to each cylinder. It just dumps enough fuel in so the O2 sensor reads right, but it doesn't know how much fuel is entering each individual cylinder. My Fieros had MPFI going back to 1985 and that works much better.

Redline was very low and that's why with all that torque it was only good for 135hp. I never wanted it faster than 4000rpm. That car is probably the reason I so dislike high RPM and so enjoy lots of torque.

I guess it depends on what you want from a car. All that torque is needed to get that beast moving, that's also why that car doesn't feel that slow. If it had a 4-cylinder with 190 hp and 135 torque it'd feel much slower because of all the weight. I could never get used to having such a low redline, but I understand where you're coming from with regards to torque. My MR2 Turbo feels anemic down low (less than 3000 rpm) because its a 4-cylinder made to rev. My Fieros love revving from 1500 to 3000 RPM, and that torque makes them very easy cars to drive around town.

It did not have a tach on the dash (until you turned on the live sensor data display, which included RPM), and it had a very interesting speedometer that you may never have seen before. It was quite nice to look at. It was similar to this but nicer:

I've seen dashboards like that all the time. Don't most Buicks/Cadillacs/etc from that era with bench seats have that same type of speedometer? I know that my Grandfather (died in 1995) had a Cadillac with a dashboard like that back in the mid 80's when I was really young.

[IMBoring25]

Column shifters suck to use. Every one Ive ever used involved having to use too much force, and missing whichever motion selection was intended the first try through

It sounds like you're using the column shifter incorrectly. It is a three-dimensional motion, not a two-dimensional motion. The shifter will move fore-and-aft and is spring-loaded to the front of the car. You must pull the shifter towards you to clear the gate that holds the shifter in Park and the gates that detent the shifter in other places as you move through the gears.

The only way I understand your complaints is if you're trying to make it a straight-up-and-down motion and forcing the shifter through the gates with brute force.

I've seen dashboards like that all the time. Don't most Buicks/Cadillacs/etc from that era with bench seats have that same type of speedometer? I know that my Grandfather (died in 1995) had a Cadillac with a dashboard like that back in the mid 80's when I was really young.

I learned on an '84 Buick LeSabre. It was similar, but not identical.

[watkins]

Im not an idiot. Im perfectly capable of using one and do on a regular basis. Doesnt change the fact that pretty much all of them suck.

Oh, and recount your dimensions. Its only two. Fore-aft and up-down

[IMBoring25]

I never said I thought you were an idiot. I didn't know how many times you'd used one (Obviously as few as you can get away with). I could see someone growing up in a family as biased towards imports as mine is biased towards domestics barely ever having even seen one (I've never seen a column-shift Saab), and there have been times I've put great effort into using an unfamiliar piece of equipment incorrectly to accomplish a task only to notice later, "Oh, that's how it works...Neat." If there was any chance this was one of those times for you, I wanted to help smooth things out. Could I have worded it better, yes...

I have driven literally dozens of column-shift automatic vehicles from a variety of manufacturers and including medium-duty trucks and have NEVER driven one that acted as you described. Some of them feel a little more or less rubbery, but they've all worked about the same way and with at least reasonable smoothness. Sorry for any offense.

As for the dimensions, I was thinking of the up-and-down as being two dimensions in the Cartesian sense, since the motion in that plane is actually rotary more or less about the axis of the steering column. I guess 2-D is more appropriate.

[watkins]

Pardon my assholeness at the moment. Girlfriend issues.
And my post was mostly sarcasm.

[theholycow]

It just dumps enough fuel in so the O2 sensor reads right, but it doesn't know how much fuel is entering each individual cylinder. My Fieros had MPFI going back to 1985 and that works much better.

That's how a carburetor works too, except it can't measure the fuel, it just lets the rushing air suck the fuel as it goes by. The TBI is meant as a slightly improved carburetor.

I've seen dashboards like that all the time. Don't most Buicks/Cadillacs/etc from that era with bench seats have that same type of speedometer?

Yup. The 1987 Cadillac kept the layout but made it look much more modern.

[AHTOXA]

Im not an idiot. Im perfectly capable of using one and do on a regular basis. Doesnt change the fact that pretty much all of them suck.

Oh, and recount your dimensions. Its only two. Fore-aft and up-down

When I used to drive a car with the column shifter there's a way to do this to not miss the intended selection. When removing from drive, you just have to get into the reverse and push the lever back and drop it straight down. That way you can pull down as hard as you want but i won't let you past "D" because then you have to pull it towards yourself again. Going to reverse it's the same thing.

[theholycow]

there's a way to do this to not miss the intended selection. When removing from drive, you just have to get into the reverse and push the lever back and drop it straight down.

Same pattern as with a console/floor shifter, except instead of a button, the lockout is that you pull the lever towards you. With both types of shifters, you can push it between D and N without operating the lockout, and between anything after D. (Lockout behavior may vary slightly from one manufacturer to the next. No purchase necessary to win. theholycow will not be held liable for incidental or consequential damages resulting from sweepstakes entry. All rights reserved. This product contains chemicals known by the state of California to cause cancer. In the event of a real emergency, you would have been instructed to place your head firmly between your legs, and kiss your ass goodbye. Please fasten your seatbelts, lower your trays, and discontinue any sexual activity now, as the plane will be landing soon.)

[AHTOXA]

Thanks for the laugh, man!