Who here shoots? (Gun related)

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Re: Who here shoots? (Gun related)

Post by AHTOXA »

I will be buying my first gun in about two months for my birthday. I have plenty of time to chose what I want.

Suggestions? Looking for a handgun and need to see some options that you guys recommend.
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Re: Who here shoots? (Gun related)

Post by AHTOXA »

Well, I want a handgun for a shooting range duty as well as personal/home protection duty. I'd like it to be reasonably priced and the cost of ammo matters. I see from the posts here and it can be quite expensive.
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Re: Who here shoots? (Gun related)

Post by AHTOXA »

I am also looking to purchase a hunting rifle sometime next year and get into hunting game. Handgun will be the first purchase, however.
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Re: Who here shoots? (Gun related)

Post by AHTOXA »

No, I have not shot before. I've shot all sorts of airsoft and pellet guns but not a real gun.

I'm not looking to carry it, so that doesn't matter to me. Even with IL's gun restrictions, I should still be able to find a gun that suits me well.
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Re: Who here shoots? (Gun related)

Post by noob5,000,000 »

Glock 17 or 19 :mrgreen: . They're both 9mm, the G17 is a full size and the G19 is the compact size (not to be confused with ''subcompact"). The G19 is immensely popular as an all-around home-defense/concealed carry/range gun, but I also know that you're pretty tall, and may therefore have larger than average hands, in which case you may find that the full-size G17 fits your hand better for all the same purposes. If you feel more comfortable with a larger round, the full size G22 and compact G23 are the same size as the G17 and G19, only chambered in .40 s&w (15 and 13 rounds, respectively).

I know I sound like a Glock salesman, but I am a huge fan of the simplicity, reliability, and availability of Glock pistols. They shoot pretty nice too, there was very little recoil from the G17 I shot, and even seconds after picking it up for the first time, I was able to shoot pretty accurately at some IPSC-style targets.
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Re: Who here shoots? (Gun related)

Post by six »

I'm a Glock guy too, so naturally, I would peddle to you a Glock 17 or 19 (9mm). If a revolver is more your fancy, you can't go wrong with Smith & Wesson. Glocks are known for their extreme reliability and durability, and they are reasonably easy to shoot with no external safeties to "get in the way." They are also lighter in weight, and to your delight, cheaper than comparable guns of the same caliber. I am purchasing a Glock 22 or 23 (.40 S&W) of my own in the near future for personal use.

However, guns run the gamut on all factors, so the only "option" you have is to try them all out and see which one "fits" you best. Like Ashish said, I recommend starting with .22LR; however, if you shot any decent airsoft or pellet gun that has "recoil" you've pretty much felt what a .22 feels like. 9mm is the caliber to start with for you if that's the case. Since cost seems to be a major factor for you, it looks as though 9mm might be your only choice. Ammo for .40 S&W and .45ACP is much more expensive. The thing to consider, though, is stopping power since you plan on using it for home/self defense. Hollowpoint 9mm is decent in most cases (I highly doubt you will ever get in a situation where you will actually have to discharge your weapon, just showing its presence is enough for most cases), but if your life depended on it, nothing drops an offender like a .45 (unless you use a shotgun, but that's a whole 'nother discussion). I am a shotgun guy, too, so I have to have that plug in somewhere :wink:
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Re: Who here shoots? (Gun related)

Post by comingbackdown »

Recommendations:
In the arena of home defense, you're better off with a short barreled 12 gauge pump with a few upgrades. I see the Remington 870 recommended for that quite often. Pistol rounds can very easily travel through an entire house. Rifles are a no-no. Pistols are also very easily removed from the owner and turned on them.

That said, if you're determined to use a handgun for self-defense, don't go too big, don't go too small. You want just the right weight, firing speed, and stopping power, matched to you. 9mm or .40 S&W are the most common self-defense calibers. As far as brands, Glock or Springfield would be a good bet, they're just not ultra cheap. I've seen a lot of people who swear by the Springfield XD and the Glock 17. However, the brand doesn't matter so much, so long as the weapon is matched to its owner. A .45 is way overdoing it, high recoil, low velocity, not a piece of cake for a novice shooter to make quick and consistent follow up shots with, and that ammo is nowhere near cheap. GAP .45 was a decent compromise from what I saw, but it lacks the best qualities of the two platforms that it was meant to bind into one application.

You don't need to go ultra pro on ammunition, but never, ever buy el cheapo ammunition. My uncle used to buy cheap ass 9mm rounds by the several hundred. He wound up having to clean his gun... a lot.

Don't buy a cheap gun either. Hi Point, for example. Cheap, but reliable. Total bitch to shoot. The rear sight on my uncle's was also a total piece, and I would prefer to remove it altogether.

Here, have a good link: Clicky!
Home Defense Gun Selection
Pistols vs. Revolvers
Selecting Sighting Options
Selecting A Caliber For Self-Defense
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Re: Who here shoots? (Gun related)

Post by theholycow »

comingbackdown wrote:Pistols are also very easily removed from the owner and turned on them.
As someone with no experience and little study in the actual use of firearms, this seems counterintuitive to me. Wouldn't a shorter weapon mean that the attacker needs to get closer, providing more time to fire and allowing the owner to use hands/feet/etc to defend the gun?
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Re: Who here shoots? (Gun related)

Post by six »

What is easier to grab from an unsuspecting person? A pen or a baseball bat? A pen is small, with relatively few places to grasp, and even so, only with your fingers; you can try to secure it by covering it with both hands and turning away, but that makes the pen completely ineffective in this case. A baseball bat is built to be held with two hands, is much more significant in weight and size so it takes more effort to grab, and it is even easier for the person holding it to yank it back, and swing at you with it. A simplified analogy, but I hope it makes a little sense :oops:. Of course, having never been in such a situation, I am only speaking in theory...
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Re: Who here shoots? (Gun related)

Post by comingbackdown »

six wrote:Of course, having never been in such a situation, I am only speaking in theory...
I'm speaking from the study of practical martial arts training, as well as other sources of information.
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Re: Who here shoots? (Gun related)

Post by six »

How easy is it exactly for someone to disarm you? I'm curious now, and since you have experience, can you maybe share with us how we can defend against a disarmament? :)
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Re: Who here shoots? (Gun related)

Post by Tups »

It must suck to live in such a dangerous country ;)
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Re: Who here shoots? (Gun related)

Post by comingbackdown »

six wrote:How easy is it exactly for someone to disarm you? I'm curious now, and since you have experience, can you maybe share with us how we can defend against a disarmament? :)
A firearm is a distance weapon. Keep your distance. If you have to draw your weapon at close distance, step away from your assailant as you do so. Never hold your weapon one-handed in any such situation. If someone is close enough to lay a hand on the top of the slide on a handgun, all they have to do is be fast enough to get a hand on it. From there it's not too difficult.

1. Keep your distance.
2. Know your weapon as you know yourself. *see below*
3. If you draw your weapon, be ready, be committed. You need to have the mentality: "If it's them or me, it won't be me".
4. Always keep your eyes on your assailant*, and keep a firm, two-handed grip on your weapon.

*Be aware of your surroundings at all times. Being aware is the best prevention of bad situations. If you're in a situation where you have your weapon drawn, be mindful of your surroundings. You may have the jackass at gunpoint, but that doesn't mean you're out of the woods if the assailant brought friends.

*Know your weapon as you know yourself*
I once heard a story of a woman who was home alone with a child. A criminal carrying a single shot break barrel competition pistol tried to force his way into the house. She ran to her bedroom and grabbed her husband's handgun. It was a single action semi-automatic pistol, round in the chamber, safety off, hammer down. She didn't know anything more about it than "point and shoot". She didn't know she had to pull the hammer back again. She received powder burns from the shot the man fired, and damage from being hit by him. He took the child, and her husband's gun. He wound up being shot by a SWAT sharpshooter, after winding himself up surrounded by law enforcement officials in an overturned car.

The woman's injuries healed. The child was fine except for a few bumps and bruises. However, the man never would've gotten that far if that woman had known how to use that gun. Know your weapon! Know how to draw it quickly if you carry. Know how to clear a jam or a bad round that doesn't fire. Don't just read it, practice it. God forbid you ever have to use a gun to defend yourself, but for your own safety, be ready for the unexpected.

A note on knives: Believe it or not, unless an assailant has a rifle or a shotgun, you're worse off against a knife.
A gunshot wound is painful, sure. A knife wound is worse. The body reacts negatively to the presence of a foreign object being rammed into you, whether it be a blade or a bullet. However, a knife wound usually brings on shock much faster. Knife wounds are caused at lower velocities than gunshot wounds, and a large knife makes a larger wound than a bullet, increasing the chances of hitting internal organs or major arteries. Difference being, a knife requires close quarters to be used. If an assailant draws a knife on you, keep your distance. If they try to close the gap, make sure they don't get the chance. Knives are nothing to laugh at.
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Re: Who here shoots? (Gun related)

Post by comingbackdown »

six wrote:What is easier to grab from an unsuspecting person? A pen or a baseball bat?
That's about it. It's easier to keep a grip on a long gun for a couple of reasons.

1. The points where you grip the weapon are farther apart. If you try to yank a handgun from someone's hands, even in a two-handed grip, the points where the weapon is held are on a central axis, and vertical rather than horizontal. A pistol can be knocked loose and spun out of the user's hands. A rifle or shotgun has to be knocked loose in both hands, and a long gun is more likely to be in their face if they try to take it. This lends to attackers getting their heads shot off if the gun goes off as they're trying to wrestle it away from the owner.

2. You can't tuck a handgun under your shoulder and clamp down if someone tries to take it, and still be able to use it. With a long gun, you can clamp down over the stock and still be able to fire. It'd hurt like hell, but it's better than nothing. The gun would have to be knocked loose from your shoulder anyway. (The exception to this is a pistol grip style shotgun, but that's not an advisable self-defense weapon anyway.)

Let's say you pull a gun on me, and I'm up close. Sidestep, snap my hand down tight on the gun, hit and twist. Done right, this leaves you without your weapon, possibly with a broken finger, and with the barrel of your own gun against your temple. That is NOT a pretty situation to be in.

There are reasons police recruits are taught weapon retention.

Also, if it comes down to it and your weapon is knocked out of firing position, which would you rather be doing?
Would you rather be kicking at them and trying to slam them in the face with a pistol, or rapidly and forcefully snapping a long gun barrel or stock into their throat? I'd prefer #2.

Keep in mind, if they get ahold of your weapon, there are countermeasures, but without some training, there isn't a whole lot you can rely on other than running like hell.
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Re: Who here shoots? (Gun related)

Post by AHTOXA »

Aaron, it's much easier to talk about as opposed to being in the situation and having to react fast.
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