No heel & toe? No problem! - Doing it the right way:)
No heel & toe? No problem! - Doing it the right way:)
G. Panizzi showing some skillz without regular heel&toe downshifts)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3oT9nQfMXKc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3oT9nQfMXKc
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Re: No heel & toe? No problem! - Doing it the right way:)
The days of healing toes are coming to an end, expretzelly after Toyota's throttle issues. If they haven't used this strategy before, automakers will Shirley implement control logic that cuts the throttle to idle whenever the brakes are applied. Be the first on the internet to offer cable-throttle pedal conversions and a half-dozen die-hard fanatics will beat a path to your website!
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Re: No heel & toe? No problem! - Doing it the right way:)
#1 out of 6 here...possibly #2, I don't know how bad THC wants it.Rope-Pusher wrote:The days of healing toes are coming to an end, expretzelly after Toyota's throttle issues. If they haven't used this strategy before, automakers will Shirley implement control logic that cuts the throttle to idle whenever the brakes are applied. Be the first on the internet to offer cable-throttle pedal conversions and a half-dozen die-hard fanatics will beat a path to your website!
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Re: No heel & toe? No problem! - Doing it the right way:)
It'd have to be cheaper than getting my DBW reprogrammed with an aftermarket tune...which is impossible because it would require a tune to make it work.94Corolla5Speed wrote:#1 out of 6 here...possibly #2, I don't know how bad THC wants it.
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watkins wrote:Humans have rear-biased AWD. Cows have 4WD
Re: No heel & toe? No problem! - Doing it the right way:)
I doubt that this logic will be implemented on manual cars. Automatics possibly, but performance cars will never have it I think. Sales will go down and companies will be forced to eliminate the manual trannies completely or lobby the govt to allow them to forego this scheme on "performance" builds, assuming this idle throttle cut would even make it to production.
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Re: No heel & toe? No problem! - Doing it the right way:)
It wouldn't be the first example. I know there's plenty of cars that come that way from the factory already. I think they're programmed to allow enough for HT.
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watkins wrote:Humans have rear-biased AWD. Cows have 4WD
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Re: No heel & toe? No problem! - Doing it the right way:)
noone ever said you couldn't do it without heel-toe, but man that was some sloppy driving anyway. its impossible to threshold brake and non-rev match a downshift without your tires getting loose. hence the reason for heel-toe. its to keep you at high revs in a low gear when you enter the corner so you have full power potential when you hit the apex and go to mash the gas. im sure if gary sheehan raced around a track with using heel toe and one without, the one without would be slower, because he wouldn't be able to threshold brake and then downshift and dump the clutch without the tires getting loose. longer braking distances=slower laptime
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Re: No heel & toe? No problem! - Doing it the right way:)
Can you drive without HT? Sure. Can you drift? Sure. Is either one the fastest way around the track? No.
In racing, you want to always carry the highest speed possible, common sense. To do that, you'd brake as late and hard as you possibly can. If I slowly brake going into a corner, taking my sweet time, the guy behind me is gonna fly past me and then brake hard and late, effectively reaching the same cornering speed, yet will be ahead of me.
If you're good enough to use the braking effect from using the clutch to rev the engine up on a downshift, and modulate the brake pedal accordingly to continue to achieve maximum braking, then go right ahead and say screw HT, but I challenge you to find anyone that can, because it's impossible.
In racing, you want to always carry the highest speed possible, common sense. To do that, you'd brake as late and hard as you possibly can. If I slowly brake going into a corner, taking my sweet time, the guy behind me is gonna fly past me and then brake hard and late, effectively reaching the same cornering speed, yet will be ahead of me.
If you're good enough to use the braking effect from using the clutch to rev the engine up on a downshift, and modulate the brake pedal accordingly to continue to achieve maximum braking, then go right ahead and say screw HT, but I challenge you to find anyone that can, because it's impossible.
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Re: No heel & toe? No problem! - Doing it the right way:)
paul34 wrote:Yea, it's easy to avoid HT if you never rev match.
in an actual race car, they use the bare minimum of tranny fluid to get the lowest drivetrain losses due to the tranny moving all the fluid. if you tried to downshift without HT you wouldn't get past the synchro at crazy speeds.
But doing so means that you can upset the car more easily, since you're just dumping the clutch on a nonmatched shift.
he wasn't dumping it, but he wasn't exactly letting it out very smoothly either.
Also, what's with him riding the clutch all the time? Is this some special boosted car technique I don't know about?
he sucks thats why. lol!
Re: No heel & toe? No problem! - Doing it the right way:)
To set the record straight, this was meant to be the "right way" of doing it without heel toe. Not the actual, politically-correct way to downshift.
Now, if any of you are familiar with BMI (best motoring vidoes), there was a showdown with panizzi vs some of the best japanese race AND rally drivers, who did a test run on a regular evo and used regular heel toe downshifts which were executed very fast. Panizzi won the showdown, he did use heel & toe, as far as i recall ,and lfb. And for the record, he is one of the best rally drivers in the world. So folks who comment on sloppy driving and suckage, you have no clue, cause you'll never reach 10% of what this guy can do combined. Get a grip and learn something from the video, instead of crappy bashing, which seems to happen quite often on SS lately. One of the reasons many oldtimers stopped posting here.
Now, if any of you are familiar with BMI (best motoring vidoes), there was a showdown with panizzi vs some of the best japanese race AND rally drivers, who did a test run on a regular evo and used regular heel toe downshifts which were executed very fast. Panizzi won the showdown, he did use heel & toe, as far as i recall ,and lfb. And for the record, he is one of the best rally drivers in the world. So folks who comment on sloppy driving and suckage, you have no clue, cause you'll never reach 10% of what this guy can do combined. Get a grip and learn something from the video, instead of crappy bashing, which seems to happen quite often on SS lately. One of the reasons many oldtimers stopped posting here.
Good decisions come from experience -
experience comes from bad decisions...
experience comes from bad decisions...
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Re: No heel & toe? No problem! - Doing it the right way:)
and now we know that he's not an idiot who doesn't know how to HT. thank you and now we know that he's actually a good racecar driver. our bad.
(not sarcasm)
(not sarcasm)
Re: No heel & toe? No problem! - Doing it the right way:)
i'd like to find out why he applied pressure to the clutch pedal during the times he had no intention of shifting.
Are the days of DCHTs really seeing their end?
Are the days of DCHTs really seeing their end?
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Re: No heel & toe? No problem! - Doing it the right way:)
Does it really matter? In the big picture.... no. We will be old and rambling on about how we used to drive cars, with a shifter and a clutchgizmo wrote:Are the days of DCHTs really seeing their end?
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Re: No heel & toe? No problem! - Doing it the right way:)
And a steering wheel and ICEs under our own control