New member, considering stick shift car

[orly]

Hi everyone,

I've been driving (automatics) for 9 years now, and am thinking of acquiring a manual transmission car. I've read/lurked through this site for several months now, and I think I know the basics of driving stick *in theory*. Obviously theory and practice are very different though.

Anyways, the car in question is a Z4M Coupe. I've read a semi-recent thread here about another newbie who bought a E46 M3 and seemed to successfully learn on it. Since the Z4M shares the engine with the E46 M3 as well as other parts, I'm hoping it won't be too painful for me to transition on it too.

As a bonus, I know the clutch wear is covered under BMW's free maintenance program, and the car has other features like "hill holding", and a "clutch delay valve" that veteran stick drivers seem to despise, but say can be useful for newbies.

Good idea? Horrible mistake?

[orly]

This is the most comprehensive explanation I've found:

http://www.zeckhausen.com/CDV.htm

The Clutch Delay Valve (CDV) is a one-way restrictor installed by the factory between the clutch slave cylinder and clutch master cylinder, as shown in Figure 1. It "delays" the engagement of the clutch, much like old record players used a damped tone-arm to gently lower the needle onto the surface of a record.

Because of this valve, no matter how quickly you lift your foot off the clutch pedal, the clutch engages the flywheel at a constant (slow) rate. In theory, it can save the driveline from shock, were an inexperienced (or immature) driver to dump the clutch at high RPM. But in practice, all it does is prematurely wear out the clutch and turn experienced drivers into people who, despite 20 years of practice, cannot shift gears smoothly. During parallel parking maneuvers, the delay can be infuriating, causing constant clutch slippage. And during hard acceleration, the large amount of clutch slippage can greatly shorten the life of your clutch. During normal, sedate driving, the shift from first into second gear is often jerky, leading passengers to question your skill. As the driver, you can see your passengers' heads bobbing back and forth during every shift! Yes, in their minds, they are laughing at you.

Based on that site, it seems BMW started putting it on their cars since the late 90s, so I'd assume you've probably experienced it.

[Leedeth]

Welcome to the forums.

You should remove that CDV before you learn. I think it'll just learn you some bad habits, since you can simply dump each shift without any consequences.

[tehfade]

F-bodies have something like that. It's a restriction in the clutch line that keeps you from dumping it. Lots of guys just drill it out.

I don't know what goes through the minds of manufacturers when they decide to put something like that on a car...if you can't drive without help, you shouldn't be driving!

[VTECaddict]

i know what you mean, what with all the stupid aides like power steering, power brakes, mirrors, etc etc that help you operate a car more easily and safely. freakin noobs that use those things shouldnt be allowed on the road!

[watkins]

Theres a difference though. Clutch retarder = not knowing how to drive correctly, power steering/mirrors/etc = helping and enhancing what is already part of good driving.

[hockeystyx16]

sarcasm gets lost so easy over the interwebz

[watkins]

I understand the sarcasm, and it always results in some sort of e-fight. Its annoying as hell that the same topic always gets argued over.

[hockeystyx16]

yea true. PS and stuff is nice. clutch delays and dashpots and sh1t are useless.

[Paolo300zx]

i learned how to drive my 300hp+ 300zx when i was 15-16... i think you can learn on an Z4M. BMW have VERY smooth trannys. you'll be fine. just do it.

[blauenlanze]

If the CDV seriously does that, then why don't car testers ever complain about it in their reviews of BMWs? Makes it seem very odd, all of my results for the CDV are in forums or how-to guides, things like that.

[Mcfly]

If the CDV seriously does that, then why don't car testers ever complain about it in their reviews of BMWs? Makes it seem very odd, all of my results for the CDV are in forums or how-to guides, things like that.

In a car review, most of the features of the car are rated in lieu of the 'driving experience'. The CDV will ultimately
make a smoother, more predictable shift, making the driving experience better to a tester. It would probably come out
just as I said it above in a review.

[Prodigal Son]

Good idea? Horrible mistake?

I'd say somewhere between the two. If I was you, and had the money for a ZM4, I'd buy a ten year old manual Civic or Corolla, drive that for three or four months, and then sell it and buy the BMW. You will actually learn far more about the basics of shifting and keeping the car in the right gear from the Civic of Corolla than you will from the BMW (which will be too forgiving of gear selection errors). And if you screw up, you break something much less expensive.

[Leedeth]

yea true. PS and stuff is nice. clutch delays and dashpots and sh1t are useless.

Didn't you say PS was useless junk, oh wait that's older than 1 week right lol.

PS is ok I guess if your steering is really heavy, but you don't really need it.

[hockeystyx16]

there you go, your getting the point.

manual steering is easy on 205 pizza cutters, its hard 2 handed work on 245s. and this steering rack isnt leaking, you know what they say. if it aint broke dont fix it.