First Time Manual Driver - 3 Month Update

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tankinbeans
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Re: First Time Manual Driver - 3 Month Update

Postby tankinbeans » Thu Aug 18, 2016 1:31 pm

The example Focus ST you had driven was an anomaly. Mine has 23k on it with no issues and I'm not exactly a perfectionist. My friend's 2015 ST has 18k on it and no problems.

I had a 2013 SE and put 24k on it and nothing went wrong, and my friend put 42k on his 2013 with no issues.
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Re: First Time Manual Driver - 3 Month Update

Postby potownrob » Fri Aug 19, 2016 12:58 am

i think part of it too is that the focus (along with other vehicles) looks cheap compared to the golf. not saying it's worse overall, but they could do more work on the interior. guess that's one of their ways of keeping costs down though. that all said...dem seats :shock: :o :mrgreen: :!:
BUT DEM FAHGLEITZ!! :shock:

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Re: First Time Manual Driver - 3 Month Update

Postby tankinbeans » Fri Aug 19, 2016 7:06 am

Personally I don't see it as looking any cheaper overall than any current VW. It's no secret that VW had been dumbed down for the American market. The last GTI I drove, and the Jetta w/ convenience package looked like it was made by Rubbermaid.
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Re: First Time Manual Driver - 3 Month Update

Postby potownrob » Fri Aug 19, 2016 7:19 am

the jetta is a bad example (and it upsets me that they still haven't brought out the mk7 jetta, despite the improvements in the newer ones). the mk6 gti is definitely at least a little more refined than any focus, but it's the mk7 golf family i'm talking about. this is without a doubt a step up from any recent past golfs and past and current jettas. it is said to be nicer than any other car in its class.
BUT DEM FAHGLEITZ!! :shock:

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Re: First Time Manual Driver - 3 Month Update

Postby tankinbeans » Fri Aug 19, 2016 7:27 am

VW tried to dumb itself down for the US market and Ford is trying to move upmarket. I've been in most of the recent updates to both brands and they're on a par. Now VW is trying to reverse its course by moving back upmarket (I still can't see them as neing any good until VW can make them work properly - fat chance of that happening). My car specifically isn't lacking in refinement as far as I'm concerned. Possibly the SE, but even that ome felt tight.

The earlier 00s Fords were pretty bad, I'll concede that.
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InlinePaul wrote:The driving force of new fangled features to sell more cars [is to] cater to the masses' abject laziness!

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Re: First Time Manual Driver - 3 Month Update

Postby IMBoring25 » Fri Aug 19, 2016 7:30 am

That's a consequence of differences in market preferences. In Europe, primarily because their governments tax gasoline and engine size like mad and their roads are smaller, people buy premium small cars. Here, most won't buy a small car unless it's significantly cheaper than larger alternatives. That makes margins thinner on small cars.

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Re: First Time Manual Driver - 3 Month Update

Postby Teamwork » Fri Aug 19, 2016 12:37 pm

As unbiased as I could possibly be in regards to it I really think the VW GTI/Golf interior is punching way above it's price point- it could pass as a low end Audi to me. I didn't have any particular problems with the Focus ST (this was the 2015 refresh) it was definitely a cut above Subaru WRX (which is 2001 Mazda Protégé esque), but I don't think it's in the same league as VW. Things that detracted from me that was memorable was the style/font of the gauges for the speedo and tach.

I really liked the Focus ST with all of this being said and the glove box being unhinged. The deal breakers for me were the Recaro's, the 12 gallon fuel tank, and the lack of an LSD. These to me are real easy fixes for next generation to be even more competitive then they are. I think Ford sync isn't the industry joke it was 3-4 years ago and that they actually made vast improvements.

I bet if I had the Focus ST I wouldn't have to worry about my A/C not working though. :cry:

I think competition is healthy for the consumer though. Subaru is really starting to rest on it's laurels because it's owned this market in the price point of the WRX/STI for so long or at least that's how it felt in the north east.

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Re: First Time Manual Driver - 3 Month Update

Postby tankinbeans » Fri Aug 19, 2016 12:45 pm

I'll admit, the tiny tank is a bit puzzling. My opinion of VW is strictly based on tje fact that I know too many people who VWs that don't work right from new. I do find it funny that VW tries to be semi-premium because German.

They're effectively Ford or Chevy of Germany. They're meant to be the mass transport option for blue collar yokels or at least they started that way.

Stylistically, though, VW and Audi are the best looking cars on the road generally for less than $100k.
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Re: First Time Manual Driver - 3 Month Update

Postby theholycow » Fri Aug 19, 2016 1:44 pm

BMW and Mercedes are also the Ford/Chevy of Germany, but they only offer luxury models in the US and have pursued a premium reputation in the US from the beginning.

I think I lack the sophistication necessary to understand the obsession with ever-increasingly upscale interiors for non-increasingly-upscale cars. Yes, of course it must be comfortable, functional, durable, and well-built (e.g. no squeaks/rattles), but when I see discussions of interior I always envision people focusing on exactly which type of plastic makes up the dash...is it HDPE or PVC? Why should I care as long as they included enough UV stabilizers to prevent it from rotting, it doesn't cause nasty windshield reflections, and it doesn't make noise? It's not a touch surface, nor does it do anything, it just sits there.

I know that's not really what's going on, but that's what I think of.

I found my base model 2008 Rabbit's interior quite pleasant, though I'm a guy who is pretty happy with a 1980 Buick's aged interior so something is apparently not right in my head.

I also mostly don't get complaints about "parts bin" interiors, though I can understand it for expensive special editions and ultra-high-end models...and then there's that 1990s/2000s Ford parts bin interior that always seemed cheesy to me and was in every model. Other than that, though, "parts bin" anything is a big advantage to me, it means better aftermarket support, better documentation, and better parts availability/pricing when the vehicle is old.
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Re: First Time Manual Driver - 3 Month Update

Postby tankinbeans » Fri Aug 19, 2016 1:51 pm

Cow, I swear we are twons separated by a couple continental regions, some decades, and a couple wombs. I generally have no issues with a car's interior as lomg as it works.

I deliberately got the button radio in my car because I hate touchscreens if I'm on the move.
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Re: First Time Manual Driver - 3 Month Update

Postby IMBoring25 » Fri Aug 19, 2016 9:45 pm

Have to agree. Not sure what the point is of "soft-touch" materials on surfaces that you're never going to touch in the normal operation of the vehicle, when they're likely to be less durable and more difficult to clean, and "parts bin" parts will always give a better balance of cost and performance due to economies of scale.

Auto press and "status symbol" car owners are probably equally to blame.

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Re: First Time Manual Driver - 3 Month Update

Postby potownrob » Fri Aug 19, 2016 11:26 pm

tankinbeans wrote:I'll admit, the tiny tank is a bit puzzling. My opinion of VW is strictly based on tje fact that I know too many people who VWs that don't work right from new. I do find it funny that VW tries to be semi-premium because German.

They're effectively Ford or Chevy of Germany. They're meant to be the mass transport option for blue collar yokels or at least they started that way.

Stylistically, though, VW and Audi are the best looking cars on the road generally for less than $100k.
to add to what IMB said VW is not as lowend in Europe as it is here stateside. They have lower brands like Skoda and Seat which moves VW more upscale (in addition to small cars like the Golf being more desirable there for reasons IMB mentions). This hopefully is part of why VW cheapens their cars for the US market. That said, what they have given us that is cheapened hasn't been that bad compared to the competition. Granted it sometimes took a couple of years to catch up to the competition (like with the Jetta), but I don't think they're as bad as they're made out to be, despite their transgressions and assumably inherent coldness in certain regards... :lol: 8)

Edit: forgot to mention, if skoda does indeed come here, that should not only give us some cheaper options for German cars, but it will probably push VW more upmarket, for better (nicer) or worse (more expensive). :twisted:
Last edited by potownrob on Fri Aug 19, 2016 11:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
BUT DEM FAHGLEITZ!! :shock:

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Re: First Time Manual Driver - 3 Month Update

Postby potownrob » Fri Aug 19, 2016 11:37 pm

IMBoring25 wrote:Have to agree. Not sure what the point is of "soft-touch" materials on surfaces that you're never going to touch in the normal operation of the vehicle, when they're likely to be less durable and more difficult to clean, and "parts bin" parts will always give a better balance of cost and performance due to economies of scale.

Auto press and "status symbol" car owners are probably equally to blame.
ill be the first to admit that preferences about cars are not always rational. Part of the focus dash thing (and I don't really care much about the standardized dash idea, though current trends in having different dashes for each model surely make people expect different looking interiors on each model) is not so much the materials but how mature it looks. Someone like tank, or even cow, probably doesn't care about driving a car that has a dash made for a young person. I do seem to care. Every time I drove my 2002 Impreza I kicked myself for buying a car with such a cheap and boy racerish looking interior. Of course, this was coming from having had mainly Hondas in the past. When I see a focus interior, it doesn't look too cheap (I looked inside one this morning to check my sanity). It does look less refined to me though. There are certain things that I expect having had mainly Hondas and VWs; if the controls for the mirrors, handles, transitions in body panels, gauges, etc. don't look serious enough to me, I will consider the interior less mature and refined than I'd want. That's not to say I wouldn't consider having a car with an immature interior, but it would probably weigh on my decision vs. other cars.
BUT DEM FAHGLEITZ!! :shock:

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Re: First Time Manual Driver - 3 Month Update

Postby tankinbeans » Fri Aug 19, 2016 11:50 pm

You calling me old? Haha

My Kia, of all the newer cars I've driven, was bad. As in I sliced my finger on hard injection molded edges. I'm trying to figure out what mature gauges are; the concept doesn't compute. Honestly, my car reminds me of my 03 Accord with everything where it's supposed to be.
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Re: First Time Manual Driver - 3 Month Update

Postby IMBoring25 » Fri Aug 19, 2016 11:55 pm

Roman numerals. :)


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