First Time Manual Driver - 3 Month Update

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MH86
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Re: First Time Manual Driver - 3 Month Update

Postby MH86 » Thu Aug 11, 2016 5:20 pm

tankinbeans wrote:MH, ask all the noob questions you can think of. We've all been there. Teamwork was a fairly new member when he started answering questions for other newer members. It's reassuring to have a place to hang out where the members don't bro out (sorry enniroc and keyboard avatar young woman - I've forgotten your handle) and pretend they never mess up.

Thanks. It's incredibly reassuring that you're all humans (or at least incredibly life-like) on here. I've seen too many places on the Web where people claim get their cars moving with only .5 seconds of clutch slip and shifted perfectly from day one.

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Re: First Time Manual Driver - 3 Month Update

Postby Teamwork » Thu Aug 11, 2016 10:38 pm

I was rifling a ton of questions but I do that for pretty much everything that requires me to learn. If I ask and voice the questions and answers it just helps me learn things. I ranted many a times when I registered here how I would research advice on other various sites and a lot of it kind of hindered my progress because baseless things were being stated and everyone would act like it could only be done their way and no other.

I'm going to guess that the gauges aren't backlit in the dark with the headlights off to remind drivers without automatic headlights to turn their lights on. Although if that's the case, they might as well have just made auto headlights standard.

Didn't even think of this but that could make sense. I'd still rather have set up with the latter with some sort constant back lit no matter if DRL's or headlights. I've done a bit of research into this with some of the most knowledgeable coders and apparently it can't be done. There is scandinavia mode though which would allow this but also defaults your headlights to be constantly on when the car is on.

It's kind of funny on a side note though because I felt obligated to give sound advice if I thought I could help once I became pretty familiar with how things work and understood better. I'm by no means the best manual operator but I at least kind of understand it pretty well and realize if something is jerky or wonky why it happened that way. When I first started out I really just hoped my 1st gear launches were good enough and that no one would see me bucking like a bronco or stalling. I didn't really understand too much why it would be smooth one time and bopping the other. It's kind of at the point where I just want to be as perfect, as consistently possible. I have better days and some days I really just have to like take a deep breathe and regroup.

Unrelated or maybe related... I've started the beginning grumblings of taking up golf. I've been getting pretty sound advice from people with quite a bit of experience and accumulation of skills but it's funny that the guys who have been playing this sport for a decade still say they suck sometimes and a memorable quote is "golf is not a game of perfect". I think the same can be applied to driving a manual transmission vehicle too.

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Re: First Time Manual Driver - 3 Month Update

Postby IMBoring25 » Thu Aug 11, 2016 11:31 pm

I do think that's why but it still doesn't always work. My truck uses the headlights as DRLs. My brother (who has a vehicle with autolamp but no vehicles with DRLs) borrowed it once after dark for some reason I don't remember. When he returned he informed me that the cluster lights weren't working. I informed him that he hadn't had taillights either.

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Re: First Time Manual Driver - 3 Month Update

Postby tankinbeans » Thu Aug 11, 2016 11:59 pm

Teamwork, I think you're referring to the glib posts in other fora which say in effect, "search the board, it's already here." That can be hard on any moderately active board because the question will be asked and then tangents will be gone off on. Look at any thread here and notice that save new member intros they all veer off into left field, making it difficult to track down the original topic of conversation (or even the OP sometimes).

Those fora are not nice places to be. I flirted with a couple, but the condescension was too great and I left, or the constant yammering on about mods... There is one member here who used to revel in having petty arguments with just about everybody; I blocked him and thankfully he's gone away.
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MH86
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Re: First Time Manual Driver - 3 Month Update

Postby MH86 » Fri Aug 12, 2016 7:35 am

Teamwork wrote:I was rifling a ton of questions but I do that for pretty much everything that requires me to learn. If I ask and voice the questions and answers it just helps me learn things. I ranted many a times when I registered here how I would research advice on other various sites and a lot of it kind of hindered my progress because baseless things were being stated and everyone would act like it could only be done their way and no other.[/ quote]

Whew. I also ask a lot of questions when I'm learning something new, especially when I'm interested in it. Since I tend to overthink things (I know, what a shocker), I feel like I really have a lot of questions sometimes.

I'm going to guess that the gauges aren't backlit in the dark with the headlights off to remind drivers without automatic headlights to turn their lights on. Although if that's the case, they might as well have just made auto headlights standard.

Didn't even think of this but that could make sense. I'd still rather have set up with the latter with some sort constant back lit no matter if DRL's or headlights. I've done a bit of research into this with some of the most knowledgeable coders and apparently it can't be done. There is scandinavia mode though which would allow this but also defaults your headlights to be constantly on when the car is on.

The lack of backlighting doesn't bother me too much, although it can be surprising when you drive through a dark area (like a tunnel or parking garage) and it's like "where did the gauges go?"

It's kind of funny on a side note though because I felt obligated to give sound advice if I thought I could help once I became pretty familiar with how things work and understood better. I'm by no means the best manual operator but I at least kind of understand it pretty well and realize if something is jerky or wonky why it happened that way. When I first started out I really just hoped my 1st gear launches were good enough and that no one would see me bucking like a bronco or stalling. I didn't really understand too much why it would be smooth one time and bopping the other. It's kind of at the point where I just want to be as perfect, as consistently possible. I have better days and some days I really just have to like take a deep breathe and regroup.

I'm also trying to understand what makes my launches smooth or jerry, even though in real life I'm being accused of overthinking things. My thought is that if I don't at least understand what makes a launch smooth or jerky, then I'll forever buck first gear. For what it's worth, I have made progress, but I'm still working on the ultimate gas/clutch combo for buttery smooth launches (I've done a few by accident, so I'm sure I can develop the muscle memory for it consistently).

Unrelated or maybe related... I've started the beginning grumblings of taking up golf. I've been getting pretty sound advice from people with quite a bit of experience and accumulation of skills but it's funny that the guys who have been playing this sport for a decade still say they suck sometimes and a memorable quote is "golf is not a game of perfect". I think the same can be applied to driving a manual transmission vehicle too.

That's a perfect analogy. My brother (who used to play a lot of basketball) told me a similar analogy along the the lines of "one bad game experience shouldn't take you away from the sport for good."

Speaking of analogies, I find a lot of parallels between driving a manual transmission and programming (as a data analyst, I'm often coding). At first, you have no idea how to get the thing running, then you're making little adjustments here and there for the best possible results.

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Re: First Time Manual Driver - 3 Month Update

Postby MH86 » Fri Aug 12, 2016 7:40 am

IMBoring25 wrote:I do think that's why but it still doesn't always work. My truck uses the headlights as DRLs. My brother (who has a vehicle with autolamp but no vehicles with DRLs) borrowed it once after dark for some reason I don't remember. When he returned he informed me that the cluster lights weren't working. I informed him that he hadn't had taillights either.


I feel like most people would assume that headlights on means the taillights are on too. I'm not sure about other cars, but on my Jetta (and I'm guessing other VWs as well), the DRLs turn off if the car senses darkness. Which is why I'm so irked that VW didn't just make auto headlights standard.

Even though I usually remember to turn on manual headlights, I wouldn't mind if/when automatic headlights become required by law. Less people would be driving without lights on, so long as they (or other drivers of their car) kept the lights in "auto" mode.

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Re: First Time Manual Driver - 3 Month Update

Postby Teamwork » Fri Aug 12, 2016 9:07 am

MH86 wrote:
IMBoring25 wrote:I do think that's why but it still doesn't always work. My truck uses the headlights as DRLs. My brother (who has a vehicle with autolamp but no vehicles with DRLs) borrowed it once after dark for some reason I don't remember. When he returned he informed me that the cluster lights weren't working. I informed him that he hadn't had taillights either.


I feel like most people would assume that headlights on means the taillights are on too. I'm not sure about other cars, but on my Jetta (and I'm guessing other VWs as well), the DRLs turn off if the car senses darkness. Which is why I'm so irked that VW didn't just make auto headlights standard.

Even though I usually remember to turn on manual headlights, I wouldn't mind if/when automatic headlights become required by law. Less people would be driving without lights on, so long as they (or other drivers of their car) kept the lights in "auto" mode.

This so much. I question the motives of things that get government mandated sometimes. Like how did TPS sensors become a priority over automatic head lights or back up cameras. Really, none of these things are totally needed but I can find much more convenience and usage over automatic head lights or a back up camera. Mind you I don't have any of these on my car except for the TPS sensor. I know I've had bad experiences with automatic head lights but for the most part post 2008ish I'd say they are pretty smart, reliable, and accurate for deciphering when to be on and off. I still see people driving with head lights on a sunny afternoon day and driving with no lights at night. I know for a fact that some cars that don't have automatic headlights have gauges that are constantly back lit day/night getting to my other point...

The lack of backlighting doesn't bother me too much, although it can be surprising when you drive through a dark area (like a tunnel or parking garage) and it's like "where did the gauges go?"

This might actually be directly why I feel like I'm effected by it because I go into a parking garage 5 days a week and literally can't see anything inside the car. I still standby my statements when it's overcast, raining, or winter too though. I remember now my dad's Toyota Matrix even has an indicator light for when the DRL's are on and when the head lights are on (I think it's different color coding). It's not fog lamps either because the car doesn't have fog lamps lol.

That's a perfect analogy. My brother (who used to play a lot of basketball) told me a similar analogy along the the lines of "one bad game experience shouldn't take you away from the sport for good."

Speaking of analogies, I find a lot of parallels between driving a manual transmission and programming (as a data analyst, I'm often coding). At first, you have no idea how to get the thing running, then you're making little adjustments here and there for the best possible results.

Very good. It's going to be hard for me to adapt to Golf I can tell because I am someone who strives for perfection and all around refinement. I think being like this even hindered me at times with learning manual transmission as well.

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Re: First Time Manual Driver - 3 Month Update

Postby tankinbeans » Fri Aug 12, 2016 9:22 am

TPS sensors are a fuel mileage thing. Auto headlights aren't as much a mileage thing.
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Re: First Time Manual Driver - 3 Month Update

Postby theholycow » Fri Aug 12, 2016 9:56 am

IMBoring25 wrote:When he returned he informed me that the cluster lights weren't working. I informed him that he hadn't had taillights either.

...not to mention only 25-50% brightness, and depending on vehicle, perhaps with high beam aim. I mentioned exactly this sort of issue in my recent rant.

tankinbeans wrote:Teamwork, I think you're referring to the glib posts in other fora which say in effect, "search the board, it's already here." That can be hard on any moderately active board because the question will be asked and then tangents will be gone off on. Look at any thread here and notice that save new member intros they all veer off into left field, making it difficult to track down the original topic of conversation (or even the OP sometimes).

Those fora are not nice places to be. I flirted with a couple, but the condescension was too great and I left, or the constant yammering on about mods... There is one member here who used to revel in having petty arguments with just about everybody; I blocked him and thankfully he's gone away.

So, on fora with lots of traffic it does get ridiculous having the exact same question asked constantly. Sometimes you'll see two different threads with almost the same title that were posted within an hour of each other. However, a common "search, noob!" post isn't helpful. Some people just won't search and you can either help them or let the deafening silence teach them that they ought to search. Others tried to search but aren't good at it.

The best way to respond in that situation is "I did a search for foobar fnord and the second result answered your question. Here's the link to the search." That politely and gently prods people to search while, importantly, teaching them HOW to search and showing them that it really works.

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Re: First Time Manual Driver - 3 Month Update

Postby Rope-Pusher » Fri Aug 12, 2016 2:02 pm

Tire pressure monitoring systems (TPMS) was instituted for safety - low tire pressures cause accidents, like roll-over kinda accidents.

"Before this indicator light became commonplace, knowing whether your air pressure had reached unsafe levels meant getting out, crouching down, and using a tire gauge. With few exceptions, this was the only pressure-checking tool ordinary consumers had at their disposal.

Then, in response to a surge in accidents due to underinflated tires, the US government passed the Transportation Recall Enhancement, Accountability, and Documentation (TREAD) Act. One of the outcomes of this legislation is that most vehicles sold in the United States since 2007 include a tire pressure monitoring system of some kind."

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline ... /cron.html

There was the whole Firestone tires failing in Ford Exploders thang - Ford had specified relatively low front tire pressures to induce understeer and soften the ride, but the pressures didn't have to drop all that much lower before the tires were underinflated - sealing beads could become unseated during an abrupt maneuver or the tires could fail due to heat build-up. With the advent of self-serve gas stations, there was nobody out there asking if you needed your tire pressures checked and most folks never pay attention to tire pressures. The TPMS became mandatory because nobody was going to pay extra for a safety item.
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Re: First Time Manual Driver - 3 Month Update

Postby tankinbeans » Fri Aug 12, 2016 2:22 pm

theholycow wrote:Makes good points regarding prevalence of common questions asked on heavily trafficked fora...


I definitely understand what you're saying here. I did notice on some of the sites I visited before coming here that it seemed as though bots were shooting out questions amd can definitely buy that answering them over and over gets tiresome. I know when I've tried searching for answers to simple questions the various responses often contradict each other, or I feel have limited relevance to my inquiry.

An example I think of off the top if my head is shifting low and fast for optimal mileage versus high and light (get to 2k rpm and shift slowing down the acceleration versus winding out to 5k and getting up to speed and staying there - loading the engine). Each camp has a different opinion and they all believe theirs is the only correct one. I've needed to ask clarifying questions to better understand. I know you've done your best to answer that one specifically in the past.

Another point where I will often try to seek clarification from those with more experiencethan I have is the proper way to drive a vehicle with a turbo for optimal longevity. I've heard that you need to wring it out periodically in order to keep the turbo in good shape (lubricated seals amd whatnot) and that there are certain things you have to use or lose.

These are areas I often feel where my questions have fallen flat in other fora.
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Re: First Time Manual Driver - 3 Month Update

Postby IMBoring25 » Fri Aug 12, 2016 2:25 pm

Thank you for that. I was trying to figure out why people were taking about mandatory Throttle Position Sensors.

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Re: First Time Manual Driver - 3 Month Update

Postby MH86 » Fri Aug 12, 2016 4:58 pm

Teamwork wrote:
MH86 wrote:
The lack of backlighting doesn't bother me too much, although it can be surprising when you drive through a dark area (like a tunnel or parking garage) and it's like "where did the gauges go?"

This might actually be directly why I feel like I'm effected by it because I go into a parking garage 5 days a week and literally can't see anything inside the car. I still standby my statements when it's overcast, raining, or winter too though. I remember now my dad's Toyota Matrix even has an indicator light for when the DRL's are on and when the head lights are on (I think it's different color coding). It's not fog lamps either because the car doesn't have fog lamps lol.

Lol, fair point. I don't find myself in many parking garages these days, although I'd also be a bit annoyed if I regularly drove into a garage and had to either turn on my lights or just live with the fact that I can't see my gauges while I park.

That's a perfect analogy. My brother (who used to play a lot of basketball) told me a similar analogy along the the lines of "one bad game experience shouldn't take you away from the sport for good."

Speaking of analogies, I find a lot of parallels between driving a manual transmission and programming (as a data analyst, I'm often coding). At first, you have no idea how to get the thing running, then you're making little adjustments here and there for the best possible results.

Very good. It's going to be hard for me to adapt to Golf I can tell because I am someone who strives for perfection and all around refinement. I think being like this even hindered me at times with learning manual transmission as well.

I too, strive for perfection, which, when mixed with anxiety, is terrible when trying new things, including (but not limited to) manual transmission. I haven't played golf, but I'm sure you'll adapt to it sooner than you think.

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Re: First Time Manual Driver - 3 Month Update

Postby Rope-Pusher » Fri Aug 12, 2016 11:17 pm

Perfection? Smurfection! Perfection is over-rated!

Image

What do they call the most mediocre athlete at the Olympic games?

The guy who earns the most points in 10 events that he couldn't even qualify to compete in individually?

The winner of the decathlon - "The Most Wonderful Athlete in the World"
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Re: First Time Manual Driver - 3 Month Update

Postby MH86 » Sun Aug 14, 2016 2:55 pm

Rope-Pusher wrote:Perfection? Smurfection! Perfection is over-rated!

Image

What do they call the most mediocre athlete at the Olympic games?

The guy who earns the most points in 10 events that he couldn't even qualify to compete in individually?

The winner of the decathlon - "The Most Wonderful Athlete in the World"

Fair point. When I don't strive for perfection, I do quite well. Case in point: this morning I drove to the gym (I usually walk there but it's way too hot today for walking), which is in a hilly area and I ended up parallel parking uphill between 2 cars. Since I'm beginning to give up on perfection, I actually did a pretty good job of getting into AND out of the spot; this was one of the first times that I pulled out of an uphill parking spot where the car didn't shudder like crazy.

And no, I wasn't revving the hell out of the engine, either.

But getting back to Rope-Pusher's point (which applies to nearly everything in life, and not just driving manual transmission cars): perfection is so over-rated and most people do a better job when they stop striving for perfection.


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