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Stelcom66
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Good to find this site

Post by Stelcom66 »

I've loved manual transmissions ever since going to school in a mid 60's GMC school bus. I was intrigued watching the driver use the 4-speed transmission - although he usually started in 2nd. My first few cars were automatics - 2 speed Powerglides in Chevys. My first manual transmission car was a '79 Saab 4-speed - while fun to drive that thing definitely could have used a 5th gear! It didn't have a tach, but had to be running at least 3600 rpm at 60 mph. In July 2010 I had an 2002 Subaru Outback automatic. I met my significant other who had a 2000 Toyota Rav4 with a 5-speed. I loved that SUV! I thought that's it - I have to go back to a manual. In April 2011 bought an '02 Subaru Forester with a 5-speed. I am so pleased going back to a manual - I enjoy that SUV every single time I drive it. Last week we decided it was time to trade the Rav4 in due to some expensive recommended repairs. My significant other would only consider standard shifts. She got an '02 Subaru Outback with the 5-speed. It's amazing how much more enjoyable that car is to drive over the automatic I had. Seems more powerful. more relaxed and probably a bit more fuel efficient. It would make me crazy how the automatic Outback would unnecessarily downshift while climbing a slight grade.

I've had several other standard shift cars and trucks. A 1980 Dodge Ram with a 225ci slant 6 with a 4-speed. A couple of somewhat rarities - a 1980 Ford Econoline passenger van with the 300ci straight 6 with a 4-speed. Manual steering though! A 1985 Dodge Caravan with the 2.2ci 4 and a 5 speed. I'd average around 20mpg around town with the Caravan.

At some point I may consider a used pickup truck - last time I shopped around in the 80's a standard shift truck was relatively easy to find. That sure doesn't seem to be the case now. Out of curiosity I researched new pickups - I don't think there are any new full size pickups available with a real standard shift! That is a concern - I do wonder why. I realize some modern automatics can get as good or better economy than standards - but there's other factors such as reliability and driving enjoyment. I wonder are standard shifts falling out of favor for reasons such as texting while driving? I hope not.

I've only read a few posts on this forum but will read more soon. I stumbled upon this by searching 'skip gears in a manual transmission to save fuel'. It's reassuring at least there are others out there that share our strong preference for standard shifts.
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theholycow
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Re: Good to find this site

Post by theholycow »

Welcome!

You're right, those vans with manual transmissions are definitely rare. I don't think I've ever seen any kind of van (minivan or RWD body-on-frame full-size) with it, though I know they have existed at times.

I think there may still be "3/4 ton" and "1 ton" pickups with stick shifts, but maybe not "half ton". The reasons are that, for all practical purposes (fuel economy, durability, etc -- on the condition that we're talking average drivers who don't give a damn), modern automatics are equal or better and nobody wants a stick...other than us. With the arms races for power and towing capacity I suspect that they don't want to have to make a manual transmission to handle the load that will also match the needs of a "half ton" pickup (weight, efficiency, packaging).
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IMBoring25
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Re: Good to find this site

Post by IMBoring25 »

Ram 2500 and up are the only game in town for full-size trucks. Ram and Ford no longer make compact trucks but everyone else's, at least, are still available with three pedals.

C1500 lost its manual in 2004.
F-150 limited the manual to V6 regular cabs for the 2004 redesign and lost it entirely in 2009.
Titan never had a manual.
Ram 1500 lost its manual in 2009.
Tundra lost its manual with the 2007 redesign.
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Shadow
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Re: Good to find this site

Post by Shadow »

Stelcom66 wrote:...I wonder are standard shifts falling out of favor for reasons such as texting while driving? I hope not...
Welcome to the forum.

I don't really think it has much to do with texting. I mean, manual transmissions have been on the decline before texting even became popular. I never really thought about the reason for the decline of the manual transmission though. I'm sure there are several different small reasons instead of one big reason though...

Back when I started driving, a manual transmission car had three distinct advantages over the automatic transmission version of the same car: 1- It was less expensive. 2- It got better fuel economy. 3- It had better acceleration. Today, that's not usually the case. A manual transmission car today might be a little less expensive (depending on the car), but the fuel economy and acceleration is often a disadvantage. I'll continue to drive manual transmission cars simply because I'm addicted to the feel & control (and the fun!) that only comes with a true manual transmission vehicle.
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AHTOXA
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Re: Good to find this site

Post by AHTOXA »

Welcome!
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Re: Good to find this site

Post by watkins »

IMBoring25 wrote:Ram 2500 and up are the only game in town for full-size trucks.
And thats with the Cummins only
Stelcom66
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Re: Good to find this site

Post by Stelcom66 »

Yes, I believe 3/4 ton and above newer trucks may still offer a manual. Over the weekend I saw and heard a newer Ford diesel, I believe it was an F350, with a manual. I saw an older Dodge Ram, probably a '95 with a bumper sticker: "Real trucks don't shift themselves" True, manual shifts have been on the decline before texting became popular. Interesting but depressing to see when the brands stopped offering manual shifts in their trucks. I used the 'Contact Us' link on Subaru's website to compliment them for still offerring a real manual shift in almost all of their vehicles. The Forester may be the only AWD SUV that still offers one.

My company supplied Jeep Patriot has a CVT - I have to admit it keeps the rpms low which contributes to very good fuel economy for an SUV. At 65 mph the engine (2.4ci 4) is only turning 2,000 rpm. I've learned vehicles with manual shifts are typically geared higher in top gear in an automatic. A manual '02 Subaru Outback I drove does around 3150 rom at 65mph. The automatic I had previously did around 2650 at 65. My '02 Forester does around 2750. I do wonder why Subaru (and probably others) gear the manual shifts higher - the 2.5 flat 4 is certainly cable of running at a lower rpm at highway speeds. Still - in the long run there's probably less revs overall on a typical trip, especially mine which can be up and down hills. The auto Outback I had would downshift one or two gears when it was so not necessary - I confimed that when I got my Forester manual shift with the same engine. I can usually stay in 5th on a particular route without lugging the engine at all.

Thanks for the posts.
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theholycow
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Re: Good to find this site

Post by theholycow »

If you'd like to communicate using standardized terms: That's geared lower, not higher. Arguments to support that assertion are here: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=18803&p=351722#p351722
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Post by potownrob »

Welcome to America :D

Nice cars - i drive an 02 Impreza 2.5TS
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Stelcom66
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Re: Good to find this site

Post by Stelcom66 »

I do wish to communicate using standardized terms and made note of the low vs. high gear reference - I appreciate the clarification. I thought I'd find many Subaru owners on this site - I've always liked Imprezas. That is quite cool having a Buick LeSabre with a 5-speed manual. Kind of like some conversions I've read about of the Chrysler 3.0ci V6 minivan (actually a Mitsubishi engine) to a 5 speed manual, I believe from a Dodge Daytona. I recall posts how the fuel economy and performance was significantly better - and the manual pretty much bolted right in. I wonder had Chrysler offered a manual in a sport version of the Caravan or Voyager would it have been a good seller. Probably not - but the 91 - 95 vintage with decent wheels and a manual shift would have been something I'd consider.
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theholycow
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Re: Good to find this site

Post by theholycow »

Now that you point it out, I too would expect more Subarus here. There's no shortage of fans here, but there's definitely a shortage of owners.

Thanks for the compliment! :)

Believe it or not, one Caravan was offered with a row-your-own transmission: The 1989-1990 turbo version.
http://www.caranddriver.com/features/th ... on-feature
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Stelcom66
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Re: Good to find this site

Post by Stelcom66 »

I think I remember that Car & Driver article, I've subscribed to that magazine since the late 70's. I actually had an '85 Caravan with the 2.2ci 4 with a 5 speed. I think the 2.6ci was only available with a 3 speed auto. I forgot to mention another somewhat rare vehicle I owned - a 1988 Ford Aerostar with the 3.0V6 (I think a Mazda engine) and a 5 speed manual. Trouble with that vehicle was it even had trouble going downhill in snow - hardly any weight in the rear wheel drive back end. It was nice to drive otherwise. It was almost surprising Ford offered the manual with the V6 - a nice drivetrain.
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Re: Good to find this site

Post by Rope-Pusher »

Dodge Caravans and Plymouth Voyagers were offered with manual transaxles in the USA from 1984-1992 and again in 1994. After that, only on those built in Graz, Austria for "Export" markets.
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Stelcom66
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Re: Good to find this site

Post by Stelcom66 »

Interesting - years ago I test drove a '94 Caravan with the 2.5ci 4 and a 5 speed. I had an '86 Subaru GL 4WD (not AWD, had to engage 4WD manually) 5 speed manual that had a nice feature - the hillholder clutch. I heard Subaru was bringing it back in the Forester in recent years.
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Re: Good to find this site

Post by tankinbeans »

I have nothing to add, but welcome to the forum. I've developed a preference for manuals, even though there are still things I cannot do as well as I'd like. I've had mine close to 2 year, waitaminute I can't believe it's been that long (I digress), so I'm probably past the stage where I can call myself a n00b.

As for manuals being offered, Honda had better keep offering them in one way or another if they ever want me in their showroom again. I've had 2, and would buy again if they had what I want next time I look. I think the Accord only comes with a manual in certain trim levels, otherwise it's CVTs (don't trust them, they sound like sewing machines, blech). Having driven my friend's Sentra I can say that I won't buy one of those things until they're the only thing available, perish the thought.
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