Helllooo how are ya?! Got a few questions

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binx0101
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Helllooo how are ya?! Got a few questions

Postby binx0101 » Mon Oct 18, 2010 11:21 am

whats up

i just bought my first standard car the other day its a 1990 honda civic hatchback with a 93 ls motor + stage 3 clutch. I love it but i drove around my neighborhood yesterday and was sooo confsed as to what i did wrong so hopefully one of you can explain it to me.

I have no problem shifting into 1st from a dead stop but yesterday i got into first started goin up my street and the car was bucking when i was giving it gas so i was really reluctant to floor it. The car was moving at like 10-15 miles and hour and the engine sounded like it was revvin pretty high but i have no tach so i dont know how fast exactly. The problem im tryin to figure out is... why was the engine reving so high but the car was moving so slowly. waayy to slow to shift into second. ID appredicate any help/advice. i remind you this is my first time driving standard as well.thanks!

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theholycow
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Re: Helllooo how are ya?! Got a few questions

Postby theholycow » Mon Oct 18, 2010 11:42 am

10-15mph is normally pretty high RPM in 1st gear. It's also fast enough to shift into 2nd, even in a Honda.

If it was revving higher than it normally would in 1st at 10-15mph then your clutch is slipping.
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binx0101
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Re: Helllooo how are ya?! Got a few questions

Postby binx0101 » Mon Oct 18, 2010 12:00 pm

ok that would make sense. I know the clutch isn't slipping it grabs HARD. Im pretty sure it was just my nerves and not really knowing when to shift being out driving a stick for the first time (by myself too =/) I watched a whole bunch of how to videos on youtube this morning and so im goin to go practice some more in a lil bit. Ill let you know how it turns out this time around. Thanks

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FDSpirit
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Re: Helllooo how are ya?! Got a few questions

Postby FDSpirit » Mon Oct 18, 2010 2:52 pm

:lol: . I bet that engine was screaming. Keep us updated on your progress.
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six
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Re: Helllooo how are ya?! Got a few questions

Postby six » Mon Oct 18, 2010 4:43 pm

Hi and welcome :)

A Stage-3 clutch in a Honda... Really? And no tach, even. Let me tell you, if you can drive that well, EVERY other manual car in the world will be a cakewalk for you, hands down... Kudos :D
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fa22raptorf22
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Re: Helllooo how are ya?! Got a few questions

Postby fa22raptorf22 » Mon Oct 18, 2010 4:54 pm

Yeah, a stg. 3 is a pretty hard grabbing clutch.

There is a few things you can remember though.

You have much more grabbing force than your engine can put out, so what this means is that you can have you foot still on the clutch, and it probably wont slip.

Remember, the more you push in the clutch, the less force that is being applied to the clutch disk, but if you have enough pressure, the clutch disc and flywheel will be synced up.

Remember this while learning, that you don't necessarily have to get the clutch all the way out before you start accelerating.
You can gradually let it out when youre at the friction point, and you'll be fine.

You have alot of grab, so the friction zone will be short. Be aware of this, and get used to how the car feels.
My advice to you is the shift into 2nd sooner. You may find that you don't even need to fully engage 1st. You might be able to do what I do, and use 1st to bump the car forward rolling, and do a launch in 2nd, like you would in 1st.

binx0101
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Re: Helllooo how are ya?! Got a few questions

Postby binx0101 » Mon Oct 18, 2010 5:37 pm

thanks for all the advice! I went driving round my block for an hour with my buddy and i had a blast!!!! I love the feeling of it. I can shift through all the gears no problem. I have a habit of putting the car into neutral going down the hills in my area tho, is this bad or should i really be trying to downshift instead?

edit: oh and yea i figured out since my car is so light 1st gear isn't necessary from a stop unless im goin up a hill. the blocks in my neighborhood are around half a mile long and i was usually goin stop sign, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, nuetral to take the turn, then repeat. Heres some pics of the ricer (its missin a carpet nd backseat right now and i have to put the battery in the trunk to make room for a cold air intake but other than that its mint IMO of course)

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compared to what i WAS driving hahahaha

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1988 cutlass

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six
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Re: Helllooo how are ya?! Got a few questions

Postby six » Mon Oct 18, 2010 5:53 pm

Coasting in neutral downhill is looked down upon, not to mention, illegal. Even coasting on level ground is not a good practice. Best to keep in gear. If you are accelerating down the hill too quickly, downshift and let engine-braking do the work of slowing your car down. There is even an upside... in most modern cars, this will even save you fuel since the car shuts off the fuel supply while gravity runs your engine.
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binx0101
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Re: Helllooo how are ya?! Got a few questions

Postby binx0101 » Mon Oct 18, 2010 5:59 pm

ok so say im goin down a hill too fast in third.... if i just push the clutch in and shift to second my car will slow down? and repeat into first? Cuz i heard a whole bunch of stuff about rev matching when you downshift and idunno what that is really.

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six
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Re: Helllooo how are ya?! Got a few questions

Postby six » Mon Oct 18, 2010 6:11 pm

There are two solutions to your question:

1. If there isn't much "hill" left, just use your brakes to slow down a bit before you reach the bottom.

2. If there is still a lot of "hill" left, then yes, downshift into 2nd gear. Second gear should be low enough to slow your car down, I can't imagine a hill so steep where you would need to downshift to 1st gear. ** DISCLAIMER: Make sure you are going at a relatively low speed for 3rd gear before downshifting to 2nd gear. If your engine is revving a little high in 3rd gear, DO NOT downshift to 2nd. Use your brakes to slow down in this case.**

Don't worry about rev-matching for now. Once you drive for a couple weeks or so and are comfortable just getting around, then you can read up on and practice rev-matched downshifts, etc...
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binx0101
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Re: Helllooo how are ya?! Got a few questions

Postby binx0101 » Mon Oct 18, 2010 6:15 pm

six wrote:There are two solutions to your question:

1. If there isn't much "hill" left, just use your brakes to slow down a bit before you reach the bottom.

2. If there is still a lot of "hill" left, then yes, downshift into 2nd gear. Second gear should be low enough to slow your car down, I can't imagine a hill so steep where you would need to downshift to 1st gear.

Don't worry about rev-matching for now. Once you drive for a couple weeks or so and are comfortable just getting around, then you can read up on and practice rev-matched downshifts, etc...




ok cool, thanks. Ill prolly spend tomorrow just practicing downshifting then. Ill let ya kno how that goes too haha. I really appreciate the help tho. Break a bad habit before it becomes one ya kno?

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six
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Re: Helllooo how are ya?! Got a few questions

Postby six » Mon Oct 18, 2010 6:23 pm

Don't forget to check out the FAQ: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=3812

It has everything you need to know about driving a manual.

Also, when you are practicing downshifting, keep this in mind: don't make a moneyshift. What is a moneyshift? It's when you downshift into a gear when you are going too fast a speed for that gear. Take the hill example above, you should not downshift into second gear when your engine is revving kind of high in 3rd gear. Making a downshift in this case will make your engine rev past redline (which you can't tell since you don't have a tachometer). Running your engine past redline will have dire consequences, leading to expensive repairs... hence, "moneyshift."
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FDSpirit
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Re: Helllooo how are ya?! Got a few questions

Postby FDSpirit » Mon Oct 18, 2010 6:26 pm

There is also an FAQ floating around here about shifter hand positions(yeah yeah), but you sound like you have that down already.
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Re: Helllooo how are ya?! Got a few questions

Postby comingbackdown » Mon Oct 18, 2010 6:28 pm

binx0101 wrote:ok so say im goin down a hill too fast in third.... if i just push the clutch in and shift to second my car will slow down? and repeat into first? Cuz i heard a whole bunch of stuff about rev matching when you downshift and idunno what that is really.


Rev matching:
When downshifting to a lower gear, if you release the clutch without rev matching, the drivetrain will speed the engine up.
Let's say 2nd gear at 25 mph is 3,000 RPM, for example. If you shift up to 3rd and it drops to 1,200, then you increase your speed in 3rd until it reaches 3,000 downshifting back into 2nd would come back to a higher engine speed.

Rev matching smooths out this transition by matching the speed of the engine to the speed it would be turning at in a lower gear. There are two types of rev-matched downshifts, single clutch and double clutch. For single clutch, you press the clutch in, shift to the lower gear, blip the throttle to match RPMs, release clutch. For double clutch, you press the clutch, shift to neutral, release the clutch, blip the throttle, press the clutch, shift to the lower gear, release the clutch.

Each of these has its own advantages and disadvantages. To reduce wear and driveline shock, rev matched downshifts are proper procedure.

If you are the least bit confused by what I just said, we can clarify. For now though, just drive.
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theholycow
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Re: Helllooo how are ya?! Got a few questions

Postby theholycow » Mon Oct 18, 2010 6:28 pm

Neutral coasting is fine. It is illegal to do while going downhill. I'm sure everyone here practices plenty of moving violations that are more dangerous, more offensive, and more likely to get caught. Understand, I'm not trying to convince anyone to do any coasting, I'm just disagreeing with the idea that it is some sort of bad thing. Among all the things we talk about that are questionable it is the most harmless.

I wouldn't expect that car to necessarily DFCO well or at all, but if it does then it's worth doing. This doesn't mean using the engine to do all your braking, it just means using enough engine braking to stay in DFCO.

Do not downshift more for more braking unless your brakes are insufficient. Do it the same as you'd do if it was an automatic. You would downshift an automatic when going down a mountain, when it's a Toyota, or when your brakes are severely worn and you're trying to go buy some brake pads.

So you're going downhill too fast in 3rd...step on the brake. Yes, downshifting into 2nd would give you more engine braking, but the brakes are actually very good at braking, almost like they were intended for the purpose! If you do downshift, rev-match. Read up on it, it's not difficult to understand but it takes practice to do well. I would not recommend downshifting to 1st except when you're already stopped (or crawling, like under 5mph).

Don't skip 1st gear. By doing so, you're asking your clutch to do the work of 1st gear. Instead, get 1st gear up to just fast enough to engage 2nd gear. If you're going short distances from stop sign to stop sign and don't want to shift through more gears, just goose 2nd and then coast in neutral.

binx0101 wrote:compared to what i WAS driving hahahaha

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1988 cutlass

I just put a 5 speed manual in this same color 1980 Buick LeSabre:
Image
1980 Buick LeSabre 4.1L 5MT

Put your car in your sig!

Learn to launch/FAQs/lugging/misused terms: meta-sig
watkins wrote:Humans have rear-biased AWD. Cows have 4WD


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