progress report: race condition shifts
progress report: race condition shifts
i've been trying to monitor my shifting to determine what i've been doing wrong, what i need to change to do those things right, and how quickly i've been making progress in doing so. these are some of my findings.
problem: my rev matches are off.
cause: lack of confidence. even if i'm taking the same 20 turns over and over again, as the day progresses I am going through those turns at higher speeds, certainly carrying more speed into the turn, braking harder and later into the turn, in an attempt to get a feel for how close i can get to the envelope; i try and stay around 75% and push little by little toward 102%. Add to that lapped traffic, weird conditions, unforeseen incidents, and my many mistakes. So basically, the conditions under which I need to shift are changing constantly, until I've perfected a turn -- and by then I'm still off 50% of the time.
solution: I'm pretty happy where I am with it. Here's why. I intentionally over shoot my rev match by a small margin. I disengage the clutch at my mark, so although the engine is still climbing above the mark, I've spun the layshaft (and the synchronizers) to where I thought they should be. So when I choose the intended gear, the resistance I feel in the shifter tells me whether I was on and off, and if off, by how much. But because I select the gear slowly, to see how much resistence there is, if the engine starts to fall, it hasn't fallen below the mark, or if so, only by a little. If I"m off by a little I engage the clutch accordingly. If off by a lot (usually because I under matched, I reckon), I'll re-match. I find that, when I do overshoot, it's by no more than 1K, usually less, and the clutch engagement is nearly instantaneous. Although, 20% of the time, I do feel a slight jolt when I reenage, and although it's not enough to upset the balance of the car, I does merit some analysis as to whether I could've been smoother, been closer to target, or simply need to quit driving because I suck.
problem: downshift earlier than needed in some turns
cause: trouble HTing under full threshold braking.
solution: pratice? maybe pedal adjustment. maybe a louder engine so I can hear where the engine is, and where it goes when I match. right now, i pretty much just know how much I have to hit the pedal, but it's possible the engine is dipping between disengagement and match, which might be why I'm under on some. I can't hear the engine dipping, and I'm not looking at the tach, so it's hard to tell what without some more input. Albeit, when I'm driving on the road, I'm usually listening to music and maybe that might help bolster my shifting when I do get to race, since I'm shifting slower on the road (to some extent).
problem: some of my upshifts are sloppy.
cause: I feel like I'm leaving too much slop in the CV joints. After getting the clutch fully engaged, the car seems to rock when I get back on the gas, instead of simply going smoothly. I don't know what would cause this, or why, other than maybe the clutch needs to get engaged with a different rate of something.
more to come possibly. hoping maybe someone might benifit from my mistakes, or thoughts, or possibly gary's analysis on why i suck and why these thoughts are invalid.
on a side note: i've heard some people say how simply manuals are. they may be simplistic devices, but they are terribly complicated to operate under racing conditions with precesion. I think from an outsiders perspective, my shifting might appear professional like under race condtions, but under professional scrutiny, it's mediocre at best, and possibly downright lousy at worst.
problem: my rev matches are off.
cause: lack of confidence. even if i'm taking the same 20 turns over and over again, as the day progresses I am going through those turns at higher speeds, certainly carrying more speed into the turn, braking harder and later into the turn, in an attempt to get a feel for how close i can get to the envelope; i try and stay around 75% and push little by little toward 102%. Add to that lapped traffic, weird conditions, unforeseen incidents, and my many mistakes. So basically, the conditions under which I need to shift are changing constantly, until I've perfected a turn -- and by then I'm still off 50% of the time.
solution: I'm pretty happy where I am with it. Here's why. I intentionally over shoot my rev match by a small margin. I disengage the clutch at my mark, so although the engine is still climbing above the mark, I've spun the layshaft (and the synchronizers) to where I thought they should be. So when I choose the intended gear, the resistance I feel in the shifter tells me whether I was on and off, and if off, by how much. But because I select the gear slowly, to see how much resistence there is, if the engine starts to fall, it hasn't fallen below the mark, or if so, only by a little. If I"m off by a little I engage the clutch accordingly. If off by a lot (usually because I under matched, I reckon), I'll re-match. I find that, when I do overshoot, it's by no more than 1K, usually less, and the clutch engagement is nearly instantaneous. Although, 20% of the time, I do feel a slight jolt when I reenage, and although it's not enough to upset the balance of the car, I does merit some analysis as to whether I could've been smoother, been closer to target, or simply need to quit driving because I suck.
problem: downshift earlier than needed in some turns
cause: trouble HTing under full threshold braking.
solution: pratice? maybe pedal adjustment. maybe a louder engine so I can hear where the engine is, and where it goes when I match. right now, i pretty much just know how much I have to hit the pedal, but it's possible the engine is dipping between disengagement and match, which might be why I'm under on some. I can't hear the engine dipping, and I'm not looking at the tach, so it's hard to tell what without some more input. Albeit, when I'm driving on the road, I'm usually listening to music and maybe that might help bolster my shifting when I do get to race, since I'm shifting slower on the road (to some extent).
problem: some of my upshifts are sloppy.
cause: I feel like I'm leaving too much slop in the CV joints. After getting the clutch fully engaged, the car seems to rock when I get back on the gas, instead of simply going smoothly. I don't know what would cause this, or why, other than maybe the clutch needs to get engaged with a different rate of something.
more to come possibly. hoping maybe someone might benifit from my mistakes, or thoughts, or possibly gary's analysis on why i suck and why these thoughts are invalid.
on a side note: i've heard some people say how simply manuals are. they may be simplistic devices, but they are terribly complicated to operate under racing conditions with precesion. I think from an outsiders perspective, my shifting might appear professional like under race condtions, but under professional scrutiny, it's mediocre at best, and possibly downright lousy at worst.
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Re: progress report: race condition shifts
You should always over shoot your blip, then move the gear lever into place as the revs fall. You don't need to move the gear lever immediately once you blip the throttle. Over shooting by 1k revs is fine, just wait a sec as the revs drop.gizmo wrote:i've been trying to monitor my shifting to determine what i've been doing wrong, what i need to change to do those things right, and how quickly i've been making progress in doing so. these are some of my findings.
problem: my rev matches are off.
cause: lack of confidence. even if i'm taking the same 20 turns over and over again, as the day progresses I am going through those turns at higher speeds, certainly carrying more speed into the turn, braking harder and later into the turn, in an attempt to get a feel for how close i can get to the envelope; i try and stay around 75% and push little by little toward 102%. Add to that lapped traffic, weird conditions, unforeseen incidents, and my many mistakes. So basically, the conditions under which I need to shift are changing constantly, until I've perfected a turn -- and by then I'm still off 50% of the time.
solution: I'm pretty happy where I am with it. Here's why. I intentionally over shoot my rev match by a small margin. I disengage the clutch at my mark, so although the engine is still climbing above the mark, I've spun the layshaft (and the synchronizers) to where I thought they should be. So when I choose the intended gear, the resistance I feel in the shifter tells me whether I was on and off, and if off, by how much. But because I select the gear slowly, to see how much resistence there is, if the engine starts to fall, it hasn't fallen below the mark, or if so, only by a little. If I"m off by a little I engage the clutch accordingly. If off by a lot (usually because I under matched, I reckon), I'll re-match. I find that, when I do overshoot, it's by no more than 1K, usually less, and the clutch engagement is nearly instantaneous. Although, 20% of the time, I do feel a slight jolt when I reenage, and although it's not enough to upset the balance of the car, I does merit some analysis as to whether I could've been smoother, been closer to target, or simply need to quit driving because I suck.
Don't select the lower gear slowly. Move the gear lever deliberately with the intent to go down a gear. It will minimize sychro slip from any mismatch in revs and match speeds very quickly.
This sounds like you are rushing your downshifts and it could be that you are out of your comfort zone in the braking areas. Almost like you feel like you are going in too fast and you rush the downshift and find that road speed is higher than appropriate for the next lower gear. You don't need to initiate your downshifts immediately upon entering the braking zone.gizmo wrote:problem: downshift earlier than needed in some turns
cause: trouble HTing under full threshold braking.
solution: pratice? maybe pedal adjustment. maybe a louder engine so I can hear where the engine is, and where it goes when I match. right now, i pretty much just know how much I have to hit the pedal, but it's possible the engine is dipping between disengagement and match, which might be why I'm under on some. I can't hear the engine dipping, and I'm not looking at the tach, so it's hard to tell what without some more input. Albeit, when I'm driving on the road, I'm usually listening to music and maybe that might help bolster my shifting when I do get to race, since I'm shifting slower on the road (to some extent).
Relax. There is a lot of time. Focus on threshold braking early in the braking zone.This will give your brain time to focus on shedding that high speed before you're concerning yourself with gear changes. When you do initiate your downshifts, make sure you blip high enough engage the lower gear as the revs drop and sound like they'll match road speed.
Upshifts under acceleration are inherently not smooth. You are going from maximum acceleration in one gear to zero accelerations between gears then back to maximum acceleration in the next higher gear. How can this possibly be done smoothly?! A quick and confident upshift will give you a firm push back into your seat as weight transfers rearward under hard acceleration. Enjoy the jolt!gizmo wrote:problem: some of my upshifts are sloppy.
cause: I feel like I'm leaving too much slop in the CV joints. After getting the clutch fully engaged, the car seems to rock when I get back on the gas, instead of simply going smoothly. I don't know what would cause this, or why, other than maybe the clutch needs to get engaged with a different rate of something.
Accelerating and braking in a straight line on the racetrack are violent. It's going into the corners and coming out of the corners that you need to be smooth on the steering wheel, throttle and brakes.
I think you are overthinking things and perhaps putting too much emphasis on shifting. Shifting should be subconscious, and it sounds like it's very much in the forefront of your consciousness. Just let it go and focus on the things that require your attention, like your reference points, threshold braking, trail braking, apex speed and early throttle committed exits.gizmo wrote:more to come possibly. hoping maybe someone might benifit from my mistakes, or thoughts, or possibly gary's analysis on why i suck and why these thoughts are invalid.
on a side note: i've heard some people say how simply manuals are. they may be simplistic devices, but they are terribly complicated to operate under racing conditions with precesion. I think from an outsiders perspective, my shifting might appear professional like under race condtions, but under professional scrutiny, it's mediocre at best, and possibly downright lousy at worst.
Gary
Re: progress report: race condition shifts
Gary,
Thank you! Sorry I didn't respond sooner. Please don't take offense to that.
That was all cogent advice. And I'll try hard to keep it all at the forefront of my thoughts when I'm driving. Unfortunately, my time at the track is very limited, so I won't be able to report back on that progress any time soon.
To everyone: a few times this year I've been lucky enough to race someone else's equipment. And in each of those cases, I am becoming more aware of my inability to bridge the gap between good and great. I am good. Others are great. And whatever it takes to bridge that gap, I lack it. That said, I am trying to hard to still enjoy motorsports, but part of that enjoyment came from the light at the end of the tunnel solution: I would get good enough that someone else would start paying the racing bills for me. Lately, I'm realizing that's probably impossible; others will pay but I'll never get good enough.
Best,
gizmo
Thank you! Sorry I didn't respond sooner. Please don't take offense to that.
That was all cogent advice. And I'll try hard to keep it all at the forefront of my thoughts when I'm driving. Unfortunately, my time at the track is very limited, so I won't be able to report back on that progress any time soon.
To everyone: a few times this year I've been lucky enough to race someone else's equipment. And in each of those cases, I am becoming more aware of my inability to bridge the gap between good and great. I am good. Others are great. And whatever it takes to bridge that gap, I lack it. That said, I am trying to hard to still enjoy motorsports, but part of that enjoyment came from the light at the end of the tunnel solution: I would get good enough that someone else would start paying the racing bills for me. Lately, I'm realizing that's probably impossible; others will pay but I'll never get good enough.
Best,
gizmo
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Re: progress report: race condition shifts
With your luck, if you ever got good enough to get paid for racing, the next week you'd probably get bit by some kinda bug and get Lyme Disease - skin turns green and pitty and folks mistake you for Yoda.gizmo wrote:Gary,
Thank you! Sorry I didn't respond sooner. Please don't take offense to that.
That was all cogent advice. And I'll try hard to keep it all at the forefront of my thoughts when I'm driving. Unfortunately, my time at the track is very limited, so I won't be able to report back on that progress any time soon.
To everyone: a few times this year I've been lucky enough to race someone else's equipment. And in each of those cases, I am becoming more aware of my inability to bridge the gap between good and great. I am good. Others are great. And whatever it takes to bridge that gap, I lack it. That said, I am trying to hard to still enjoy motorsports, but part of that enjoyment came from the light at the end of the tunnel solution: I would get good enough that someone else would start paying the racing bills for me. Lately, I'm realizing that's probably impossible; others will pay but I'll never get good enough.
Best,
gizmo
'08 Jeep Liberty 6-Speed MT - "Last of the Mohicans"
Re: progress report: race condition shifts
So you're saying that I'm not really Yoda? Talk about a buzzkill...
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Re: progress report: race condition shifts
And you're no Trevor Bayne yet either.gizmo wrote:So you're saying that I'm not really Yoda? Talk about a buzzkill...
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Re: progress report: race condition shifts
I've read the title as "race condition shits". One of those shits when you race down to the bathroom with your stomach feeling like an internal nuclear war is being waged. For a brief second you feel like you might not make it. Sometime during that time frame you are considering plugging it with a finger, perhaps, if you aren't making it. Have you guys ever thumb-plugged a hose and it sprayed everywhere? Yeah, perhaps that isn't the best way. Meanwhile you're a few steps closer and praying that the zipper doesn't get stuck and the gods of the belt buckles don't strike you down right there and then. At the last moment, all is off and you're coming in hot for a touchdown and the flood gates open to unleash a wild fury of projectile feces.
Carry on, please.
Carry on, please.
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Re: progress report: race condition shifts
well if you're saying i'm full of shit. who knows, maybe i am.
however, i do find many of your posts funny and entertaining. that would be up there in the top 10, but aside from PCT, i can't name others.
however, i do find many of your posts funny and entertaining. that would be up there in the top 10, but aside from PCT, i can't name others.
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Re: progress report: race condition shifts
Gizmo, not sure what PCT stands for, but I didn't mean this in any insulting way or with an implication that you are full of shit. I've not even read the thread, just (mis)read the title.
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Re: progress report: race condition shifts
When that happens I don't bother with my zipper and belt buckle. I just rip my pants straight down...it's not easy but it's fast, like shoving past a synchro that's nowhere near ready to let you into gear (it's also abusive on the equipment like that). Then the shitstorm starts before I'm fully seated but if I'm lucky it all goes approximately where it should.AHTOXA wrote:I've read the title as "race condition shits". One of those shits when you race down to the bathroom with your stomach feeling like an internal nuclear war is being waged. For a brief second you feel like you might not make it. Sometime during that time frame you are considering plugging it with a finger, perhaps, if you aren't making it. Have you guys ever thumb-plugged a hose and it sprayed everywhere? Yeah, perhaps that isn't the best way. Meanwhile you're a few steps closer and praying that the zipper doesn't get stuck and the gods of the belt buckles don't strike you down right there and then. At the last moment, all is off and you're coming in hot for a touchdown and the flood gates open to unleash a wild fury of projectile feces.
Carry on, please.
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Re: progress report: race condition shifts
haha ahtoxa. your post was just so terribly off topic, i wasn't sure if it was simply some strange innocuous thought, or a hint at my poor race car driving skills. recall i thought i was good enough to be professional, but now, as i go places and can't close a 1-2s gap, which is light years compared to 1/100ths pros fight for, i couldn't help but wonder...
oh well.
oh well.
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Re: progress report: race condition shifts
I feel left out of things. The only time I felt like that, it was on purpose - clean-out prior to a colonoscopy. (I don't know if I'll ever do that again)theholycow wrote:When that happens I don't bother with my zipper and belt buckle. I just rip my pants straight down...it's not easy but it's fast, like shoving past a synchro that's nowhere near ready to let you into gear (it's also abusive on the equipment like that). Then the shitstorm starts before I'm fully seated but if I'm lucky it all goes approximately where it should.AHTOXA wrote:I've read the title as "race condition shits". One of those shits when you race down to the bathroom with your stomach feeling like an internal nuclear war is being waged. For a brief second you feel like you might not make it. Sometime during that time frame you are considering plugging it with a finger, perhaps, if you aren't making it. Have you guys ever thumb-plugged a hose and it sprayed everywhere? Yeah, perhaps that isn't the best way. Meanwhile you're a few steps closer and praying that the zipper doesn't get stuck and the gods of the belt buckles don't strike you down right there and then. At the last moment, all is off and you're coming in hot for a touchdown and the flood gates open to unleash a wild fury of projectile feces.
Carry on, please.
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Re: progress report: race condition shifts
You may very well be overthinking things, now that I read the thread. Perhaps if you have the runs while running the race you might run a little faster and find more than just a second. Hopefully this won't come along with finding other unpleasantries in your suit.gizmo wrote:haha ahtoxa. your post was just so terribly off topic, i wasn't sure if it was simply some strange innocuous thought, or a hint at my poor race car driving skills. recall i thought i was good enough to be professional, but now, as i go places and can't close a 1-2s gap, which is light years compared to 1/100ths pros fight for, i couldn't help but wonder...
oh well.
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Re: progress report: race condition shifts
It's passed on from my father. They say it "runs in the jeans". (That joke works better when spoken.)Rope-Pusher wrote:I feel left out of things. The only time I felt like that, it was on purpose - clean-out prior to a colonoscopy. (I don't know if I'll ever do that again)
Seriously though, my dad's bowels are bad, my sister's bowels are bad, and mine are the best among the three of us...but that bowel ain't right either. My awful diet doesn't help.
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watkins wrote:Humans have rear-biased AWD. Cows have 4WD
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Re: progress report: race condition shifts
theholycow wrote:..but that bowel ain't right