Old versus New
Old versus New
This thought just popped into my head after reading another discussion about fuel economy---
As some of you know, I'm about to take delivery of a new Audi A5 2.0T. The car is AWD and has a 6-speed manual transmission. The car has more than enough performance to make it extremely fun to drive anywhere--through twisty mountains, around town, or just blasting down the highway. Although it doesn't lack power in any conditions, I wouldn't call it a "fast" car by today's standards.
In 1991, I purchased a brand new Eagle Talon Tsi AWD. Like the A5, this car has a 2.0 liter turbocharged engine and came with a manual transmission (5-speed) and AWD. The first time I drove an A5, it immediately reminded me of my old Talon. It felt so similar that it was almost like going back in time.
So I decided to dig out some of my old car magazines and find a road test of my old Talon to see how it would stack up against the A5. Here's what I found:
Curb Weight
Talon: 3159
A5: 3583 (wow, she's heavy!)
Horsepower
Talon: 195 (decent for the time)
A5: 211 (not too impressive by today's standards)
Torque
Talon: 203 (not bad)
A5: 258 (very decent, especially the peak holds from 1500 - 4200 rpm)
0-60
Talon: 7.0
A5: 6.2
1/4 mile
Talon: 15.3 @ 88 mph
A5: 14.9 @ 94 mph
Lateral Acceleration, g
Talon: 0.84
A5: 0.91
Tires (Should mention this after the lateral acceleration numbers)
Talon: 205/55VR16 Goodyear Eagle VR55
A5: 255/35ZR19 Dunlop SP Sportmaxx GT
Braking (Couldn't find matching distances for both vehicles)
Talon: 60-0 142 feet
A5: 70-0 155 feet
EPA Fuel Economy Rating
Talon: 18 city / 23 highway (numbers corrected to reflect today's EPA rating system)
A5: 21 city / 31 highway
So 20 years later and Audi builds a car that feels a lot like my Talon from the driver's seat. The Audi is more than 400 lbs heavier (I do wish it were lighter), but it manages to perform very similarly with a very similar drivetrain all while returning significantly better fuel economy. Back in 1991, I paid approximately $21,000 for my Talon. In today's dollars, that would be approximately $35,000. Interestingly, the base price for a new A5 is approximately $36K, although mine has an MSRP of $46K.
So who says you can't go back in time and buy a "new" old car again?
As some of you know, I'm about to take delivery of a new Audi A5 2.0T. The car is AWD and has a 6-speed manual transmission. The car has more than enough performance to make it extremely fun to drive anywhere--through twisty mountains, around town, or just blasting down the highway. Although it doesn't lack power in any conditions, I wouldn't call it a "fast" car by today's standards.
In 1991, I purchased a brand new Eagle Talon Tsi AWD. Like the A5, this car has a 2.0 liter turbocharged engine and came with a manual transmission (5-speed) and AWD. The first time I drove an A5, it immediately reminded me of my old Talon. It felt so similar that it was almost like going back in time.
So I decided to dig out some of my old car magazines and find a road test of my old Talon to see how it would stack up against the A5. Here's what I found:
Curb Weight
Talon: 3159
A5: 3583 (wow, she's heavy!)
Horsepower
Talon: 195 (decent for the time)
A5: 211 (not too impressive by today's standards)
Torque
Talon: 203 (not bad)
A5: 258 (very decent, especially the peak holds from 1500 - 4200 rpm)
0-60
Talon: 7.0
A5: 6.2
1/4 mile
Talon: 15.3 @ 88 mph
A5: 14.9 @ 94 mph
Lateral Acceleration, g
Talon: 0.84
A5: 0.91
Tires (Should mention this after the lateral acceleration numbers)
Talon: 205/55VR16 Goodyear Eagle VR55
A5: 255/35ZR19 Dunlop SP Sportmaxx GT
Braking (Couldn't find matching distances for both vehicles)
Talon: 60-0 142 feet
A5: 70-0 155 feet
EPA Fuel Economy Rating
Talon: 18 city / 23 highway (numbers corrected to reflect today's EPA rating system)
A5: 21 city / 31 highway
So 20 years later and Audi builds a car that feels a lot like my Talon from the driver's seat. The Audi is more than 400 lbs heavier (I do wish it were lighter), but it manages to perform very similarly with a very similar drivetrain all while returning significantly better fuel economy. Back in 1991, I paid approximately $21,000 for my Talon. In today's dollars, that would be approximately $35,000. Interestingly, the base price for a new A5 is approximately $36K, although mine has an MSRP of $46K.
So who says you can't go back in time and buy a "new" old car again?
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Re: Old versus New
That's how wrangler owners feel, because it IS the same thing 20 years later. lol
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Re: Old versus New
Current generation is not a Wrangler any more. It is le suck
Re: Old versus New
LOL...yeah, I guess they haven't changed all that much over the years.AHTOXA wrote:That's how wrangler owners feel, because it IS the same thing 20 years later. lol
But in my case, I'm just thinking how similar two completely different cars are that were built 20 years apart. Don't get me wrong--there are plenty of things that are different, but the similarities can't be ignored.
Re: Old versus New
Very interesting. And they really didn't have a 60-0 braking test for the A5? Seems like that is the standard speed for those things, at least in the US and the UK.
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Re: Old versus New
+1watkins wrote:Current generation is not a Wrangler any more. It is le suck
Re: Old versus New
Everywhere I look, it seems that 70-0 is the standard measurement now. But considering the fact that the A5 stopped from 70-0 in just a few more feet than the Talon stopped from 60-0, I'd say it is much more capable in panic stops. Hmmm....I can't remember if my Talon had ABS back in '91. Then again, I don't remember many cars that had ABS back in those days.Squint wrote:Very interesting. And they really didn't have a 60-0 braking test for the A5? Seems like that is the standard speed for those things, at least in the US and the UK.
Re: Old versus New
1990 Volvo 740 Station Wagon did That was the car I learned to drive on.
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Re: Old versus New
ABS doesn't reduce stopping distance. It reduces skidding distance.
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Re: Old versus New
True if the driver is competent and the brakes are proportioned correctly.
Re: Old versus New
Umm...okay, thanks for that. I was just wondering if my old Talon had ABS or not, as I can't remember. Nothing more, nothing less.Rope-Pusher wrote:ABS doesn't reduce stopping distance. It reduces skidding distance.
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Re: Old versus New
Cars stop faster with locked wheels even on snow, but you lose steering control and if your wheels are poorly aligned it could also pull uncontrollably toward one direction. ABS increases stopping distance by a small distance when it doesn't allow the wheels to lock, but you maintain steering control and wheel alignment becomes less of an issue.
My Mazda 5 is the first vehicle I've ever owned that has ABS. I don't mind it, but I never had a problem ever in any of my other cars in any weather.
Oh, congrats on the A5 btw! Post photos as soon as you get her!
My Mazda 5 is the first vehicle I've ever owned that has ABS. I don't mind it, but I never had a problem ever in any of my other cars in any weather.
Oh, congrats on the A5 btw! Post photos as soon as you get her!
Re: Old versus New
Thanks...I'll post pics for sure. BTW, I wasn't trying to turn this into any kind of ABS vs non-ABS debate. I totally understand the benefits and drawbacks of ABS. I just couldn't remember if my old Talon had ABS or not. And I still don't remember. I'm guessing that it did not, simply because ABS wasn't common back in those days. Well, at least not as common as it is today. I really don't remember my first ABS car.DKaz wrote:Cars stop faster with locked wheels even on snow, but you lose steering control and if your wheels are poorly aligned it could also pull uncontrollably toward one direction. ABS increases stopping distance by a small distance when it doesn't allow the wheels to lock, but you maintain steering control and wheel alignment becomes less of an issue.
My Mazda 5 is the first vehicle I've ever owned that has ABS. I don't mind it, but I never had a problem ever in any of my other cars in any weather.
Oh, congrats on the A5 btw! Post photos as soon as you get her!
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Re: Old versus New
Where did you read this? I'm not so sure that's correct...DKaz wrote:Cars stop faster with locked wheels even on snow,
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Re: Old versus New
I also seriously doubt this. It's all about friction coefficients, of which the static one is greater.eaglecatcher wrote:Where did you read this? I'm not so sure that's correct...
I'd prefer ABS even if it meant increased stopping distance. Maintaining steering is more important.
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