Toyota SECA 1.6 vs BMW X5 4.4i

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Toyota SECA 1.6 vs BMW X5 4.4i

Postby Shiftnow » Wed Jul 20, 2011 1:03 pm

Late at night (or very early in the morning) with some moderate rain coming in, I notice an idiot tailgating me in a white BMW X5, 7.4s to 100km/h(60mph), definitely more acceleration and aggression than my 21-year-old, one-mistimed-downshift-away-from-wrecking car. There are two lanes, but he insists on tailgating me in the fast lane, I'm at the speed-limit and just coming up to the first round-about.

Coasting at about 30km/h going into the roundabout I decide to go for it and jam it into 1st, and start the revving immediately and roar off into the distance (more like cough, splutter and stumble) I look into the mirror and see him dropping back, obviously surprised that I decided to make a run for it. I start changing the station on the radio and notice lights in my left-hand mirror and realized that he's having a go after all having changed lanes, undoubtedly hoping to match his ego to his engine size.

I down-shift to 2nd from 4th and let hell break loose, and there's the second roundabout coming, and the rain coming down harder, and Rock n Roll by KISS is playing on Classic Hits! I only glance at the left-hand mirror, I can see those annoying xenon lights growing brighter, redlining before every shift, I finally hit the roundabout, and jam it back in to 2nd revving hard to avoid flying through the windscreen.

Lo and behold, what's this? The joker has been more cautious with his airbag laden wagon (Traction control, bigger tyres -> more traction, ABS, and whatever other black magic wizardry gadgets the X5 has), he has braked hard way early into the roundabout, and was taking the turn like a schoolgirl on their first driving lesson. I'm well out of the roundabout, and I see him accelerating hard again, and I was thinking whether this guy was serious? What kind of useless driving skills are those?

By the time he passes me, I'm back into 1st gear waiting to turn right into a different road, and that was that.

So goes the story of how a 1.6L Carby in-line 4 Toyota engine (with an ancient C52 manual transmission gearbox) decimated a 4.4l V8 BMW engine with an automatic transmission (and he wasn't even using the tiptronic, just flooring it).

By the way those X5's are beautiful, sophisticated and powerful cars, you just need to know how to use it, (which is not even hard)

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Re: Toyota SECA 1.6 vs BMW X5 4.4i

Postby Shadow » Wed Jul 20, 2011 1:58 pm

My guess is that the BMW driver wasn't even paying attention to you other than that straightaway where he was most likely trying to get you to move out of the passing lane. :lol:
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Re: Toyota SECA 1.6 vs BMW X5 4.4i

Postby Shiftnow » Thu Jul 21, 2011 12:06 am

Clearly tailgating someone for 400m at 60km/h and then going at 110km/h in a 60 zone is not in anyway paying attention or trying to get past someone.

Tell a cop that; sorry officer, I didn't happen to notice my foot on the gas pedal.

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Re: Toyota SECA 1.6 vs BMW X5 4.4i

Postby Shadow » Thu Jul 21, 2011 7:50 am

I frequently come across drivers who refuse to move out of the passing lane. That said, I've been known to ride their ass a bit until they get the hint to move over. I guess you can say it's a pet peeve of mine. Next time, move over and let the guy pass and you can avoid the rest of the BS that happened afterwards. :roll:
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Re: Toyota SECA 1.6 vs BMW X5 4.4i

Postby Shiftnow » Thu Jul 21, 2011 9:14 am

Sure it was peppered, but it wasn't bs, it happened exactly as I said it. I never move over for idiots who tailgate, especially when there's no one else around and the second lane next to us is wide open, especially so if I'm going at the speed limit. It's not like I was crawling in the fast lane. Maybe if there was no tailgating happening, the "bs" afterwards wouldn't be happening :lol: :roll:

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Re: Toyota SECA 1.6 vs BMW X5 4.4i

Postby theholycow » Thu Jul 21, 2011 9:42 am

Shiftnow wrote:I never move over for idiots who tailgate, especially when there's no one else around and the second lane next to us is wide open, especially so if I'm going at the speed limit.

This. Tailgating is a surefire way to make me slow down and block any attempt to pass. OTOH if you give me plenty of room and there's a travel lane to my right I'll speed up a little and move soon enough. If you give me plenty of room and there's no more lanes I'll speed up a little and you will get my cooperation when you finally decide to pass.
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Re: Toyota SECA 1.6 vs BMW X5 4.4i

Postby Shadow » Thu Jul 21, 2011 9:55 am

Shiftnow wrote:Sure it was peppered, but it wasn't bs, it happened exactly as I said it. I never move over for idiots who tailgate, especially when there's no one else around and the second lane next to us is wide open, especially so if I'm going at the speed limit. It's not like I was crawling in the fast lane. Maybe if there was no tailgating happening, the "bs" afterwards wouldn't be happening :lol: :roll:



My BS comment wasn't questioning the validity of your story, it was merely stating that what happened was BS and shouldn't have happened in the first place.

And as far as you never moving over for people who are tailgating...take a step back and think about that. If you would have moved out of the passing lane, there's a good chance the driver behind you wouldn't have been tailgating in the first place. This is especially true if the right lane was wide open. Just because you're driving the posted speed limit doesn't entitle you to stay in the passing lane. Do you expect a driver to overtake you in the right lane? If so, you're a part of the problem whether you realize it or not. :roll:

It never ceases to amaze me how many clueless drivers there are on the roads. The next time you find yourself being tailgated, check to see if you're in the passing lane. If you are, then check to see if the next lane to the right is clear. If it is, move over. It's a pretty simple concept and it works wonders to keep traffic flowing.
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Re: Toyota SECA 1.6 vs BMW X5 4.4i

Postby Squint » Thu Jul 21, 2011 10:03 am

Both sides of this can fairly easily be seen, so here's my philosophy on this topic. I try to use only the right lane (or right two if there are three lanes) unless I'm actively passing someone. Now, if I'm passing someone using cruise and someone comes flying up behind me and starts tailgating? Tough cookies, they can wait until my cruise control gets me past. About the only vehicles I will immediately move out of the way for are emergency (since they tend to drive too fast lights on or off.. rant for a different day) or tractor trailers because if they're going downhill and passing someone, I'm not going to be in the way of a vehicle that weighs at least 10 times what mine does.

But, if I am on a one lane (each direction) road and someone tailgates me? That gets me riled up, and I will drive the exact speed limit the entire stretch of road unless that person backs off of me. Occasionally, if the weather is bad (heavy rain, snow, ice, etc...) I'll slow down below that to a "safe" speed which is a safe speed for a 90 year old grandmother.

Oh, and if you don't use your turn signals, I'll get annoyed at you and I'll get in your way as much as possible. 8) :wink:


EDIT: The other question that is brought up with the passing lane, tailgating, etc... is how fast over the speed limit are drivers trying to go if you're going the speed limit and they're still tailgating you like crazy? I feel like that should be addressed as well, though it doesn't do any good for us to talk about it...
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Re: Toyota SECA 1.6 vs BMW X5 4.4i

Postby Shiftnow » Thu Jul 21, 2011 10:14 am

Shadow wrote:
Shiftnow wrote:Sure it was peppered, but it wasn't bs, it happened exactly as I said it. I never move over for idiots who tailgate, especially when there's no one else around and the second lane next to us is wide open, especially so if I'm going at the speed limit. It's not like I was crawling in the fast lane. Maybe if there was no tailgating happening, the "bs" afterwards wouldn't be happening :lol: :roll:



My BS comment wasn't questioning the validity of your story, it was merely stating that what happened was BS and shouldn't have happened in the first place.

And as far as you never moving over for people who are tailgating...take a step back and think about that. If you would have moved out of the passing lane, there's a good chance the driver behind you wouldn't have been tailgating in the first place. This is especially true if the right lane was wide open. Just because you're driving the posted speed limit doesn't entitle you to stay in the passing lane. Do you expect a driver to overtake you in the right lane? If so, you're a part of the problem whether you realize it or not. :roll:

It never ceases to amaze me how many clueless drivers there are on the roads. The next time you find yourself being tailgated, check to see if you're in the passing lane. If you are, then check to see if the next lane to the right is clear. If it is, move over. It's a pretty simple concept and it works wonders to keep traffic flowing.


What a complete joke, you already know the scenario, the only time what you said would substantiate is if there was actually traffic on the road, and the slower lane was actually going slower, and I was holding up everyone. When there are only 2 cars, and I'm ahead of the person behind me, who makes the "decision" to tailgate me, instead of opting to use the other lane is completely different.

Yea, and just because I'm not entitled to stay in the passing lane if I'm not passing (which is redundant because this only applies to traffic and highways where there are guaranteed to be cars at anytime of day and night, and hence posted signs indicating it's an offence to be travelling in the passing lane at least in NSW, Australia) does not mean he's entitled to tailgate me.

You're failing to see the distinction between two completely different scenarios and hence have decided to make a wide sweeping generalization about passing and traffic in general (which is incorrect) because the rules vary on highways to normal main roads, and also the blatantly obvious fact you're overlooking:

1) I was there on that first stretch of road for a very long time, until he turned in from somewhere behind me, -> I was there first, I didn't force my way past him and then brake in front of him
2) He could have used the second lane which was clear the entire time throughout the whole ordeal, and which is the way he eventually ended up going when the "passing lane" in question eventually became a right-hand lane where I turned into.

You are completely right, there are so many clueless drivers who actually start the problems, and it's beautiful when it doesn't work out for them in the end.

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Re: Toyota SECA 1.6 vs BMW X5 4.4i

Postby Shadow » Thu Jul 21, 2011 10:19 am

Squint wrote:...I try to use only the right lane (or right two if there are three lanes) unless I'm actively passing someone...



And that's exactly how we should all be driving.

Now, if I'm passing someone using cruise and someone comes flying up behind me and starts tailgating? Tough cookies, they can wait until my cruise control gets me past.



I'd probably do the same. Although if I'm passing someone, I will very rarely do it while on cruise control. More often I'll accelerate at least moderately to pass someone. Either way, once the right lane is clear I'll move over and let the person behind me move ahead. I try not to be a prick on the road, even if someone is tailgating me. I don't often drive with a chip on my shoulder like some other drivers. If someone wants to get by, I let them get by, regardless of their behavior on the road. The way I see it, I really have no idea why the other person is in such a hurry. Maybe something important is happening in their life and they need to get somewhere as quickly as possible. Any attempt by me to block them in is immature and just plain juvenile.


About the only vehicles I will immediately move out of the way for are emergency (since they tend to drive too fast lights on or off.. rant for a different day) or tractor trailers because if they're going downhill and passing someone, I'm not going to be in the way of a vehicle that weighs at least 10 times what mine does.



That seems like a good strategy. LOL

But, if I am on a one lane (each direction) road and someone tailgates me? That gets me riled up, and I will drive the exact speed limit the entire stretch of road unless that person backs off of me.



Yeah, there's really no good reason to tailgate someone in that situation. Lots of drivers would respond the same way. Others would simply move over on to the shoulder and signal the other driver to pass. I've seen that plenty of times on the road. Like I said, you never know what's going on in someone's life. Maybe they are trying to get to the hospital or something....think about it.


EDIT: The other question that is brought up with the passing lane, tailgating, etc... is how fast over the speed limit are drivers trying to go if you're going the speed limit and they're still tailgating you like crazy? I feel like that should be addressed as well, though it doesn't do any good for us to talk about it...


Here's my theory: Lets say I'm driving 75 MPH in a posted 65 MPH road. If I'm in the left lane and someone comes up behind me, I move over for them as soon as it is safe to do so. Just because I'm driving 10 MPH over the posted speed limit doesn't mean that I should try to prevent them from overtaking me. So my opinion is that speed doesn't matter. If a driver wants to pass me, then I let him pass me regardless of my own speed or the posted speed limit.
Last edited by Shadow on Thu Jul 21, 2011 10:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Toyota SECA 1.6 vs BMW X5 4.4i

Postby Shadow » Thu Jul 21, 2011 10:32 am

Shiftnow wrote:
What a complete joke, you already know the scenario, the only time what you said would substantiate is if there was actually traffic on the road, and the slower lane was actually going slower, and I was holding up everyone. When there are only 2 cars, and I'm ahead of the person behind me, who makes the "decision" to tailgate me, instead of opting to use the other lane is completely different.



And you're so blind that you're only looking at the situation from your point of view. Try looking at it from the BMW driver's point of view. He comes up on you while you're driving in the passing lane (and admittedly he must have been doing the same). Now he wants to pass you, so he has two choices: pass you on the right or wait for you to move over to the right and then pass you on the left. Now think about that---in the mind of the BMW driver, you're probably unpredictable. He doesn't know if you will move over the right or if you still stay in the left lane. Why? Simple--because some drivers will know that they should move over and will do just that. Others will simply stay in the passing lane regardless. But the point here is that the BMW driver doesn't know what you will do at this point. So instead of passing you on the right, he chooses to pull up closer hoping that you will move over and allow him to pass in the passing lane (imagine that! LOL).



Yea, and just because I'm not entitled to stay in the passing lane if I'm not passing (which is redundant because this only applies to traffic and highways where there are guaranteed to be cars at anytime of day and night, and hence posted signs indicating it's an offence to be travelling in the passing lane at least in NSW, Australia) does not mean he's entitled to tailgate me.



The passing lane is still the passing lane regardless of how many cars are on the road. It only takes two cars on the road (especially if one is attempting to pass the other) for it to even matter. It doesn't take rush-hour traffic to make the rules of the road apply. And by the way, I agree that he wasn't entitled to tailgate you. At the same time, it could have been avoided entirely if you weren't driving in the passing lane in the first place.


You're failing to see the distinction between two completely different scenarios and hence have decided to make a wide sweeping generalization about passing and traffic in general (which is incorrect) because the rules vary on highways to normal main roads, and also the blatantly obvious fact you're overlooking:

1) I was there on that first stretch of road for a very long time, until he turned in from somewhere behind me, -> I was there first, I didn't force my way past him and then brake in front of him
2) He could have used the second lane which was clear the entire time throughout the whole ordeal, and which is the way he eventually ended up going when the "passing lane" in question eventually became a right-hand lane where I turned into.



You can try to justify your actions any way you want, but the fact of the matter is that you were in the passing lane when someone was trying to overtake you and you refused to move over. In my opinion, that makes you an immature driver and also makes you a dangerous driver. I also base my opinion on the way you originally told the story in the first place. You seemed to be delighted to turn the situation into some kind of competitive contest. You know, comparing your slower and older car to a newer and more powerful BMW. And I quote:

...So goes the story of how a 1.6L Carby in-line 4 Toyota engine (with an ancient C52 manual transmission gearbox) decimated a 4.4l V8 BMW engine with an automatic transmission...

Seriously? Get over yourself.
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Re: Toyota SECA 1.6 vs BMW X5 4.4i

Postby Squint » Thu Jul 21, 2011 10:53 am

Shadow, you somehow have the ability to bring out people's tempers on this board :lol: :lol:

Goosefraba... goosefraba... reference? Anyone?
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Re: Toyota SECA 1.6 vs BMW X5 4.4i

Postby Shadow » Thu Jul 21, 2011 1:29 pm

Squint wrote:Shadow, you somehow have the ability to bring out people's tempers on this board :lol: :lol:

Goosefraba... goosefraba... reference? Anyone?


I know...it's kinda funny.

I think it's mostly because I say what I think/feel whether or not it's popular with others. In other words, I call 'em like I see 'em.

I also think there's a lot of unnecessary nonsense that happens out on the roads every day. If people would just be a little more willing to "give in" (for the lack of a better phrase) and stop being so damn vindictive, we'd all be much better off.
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Re: Toyota SECA 1.6 vs BMW X5 4.4i

Postby eggwich delfiero » Thu Jul 21, 2011 9:49 pm

Shadow wrote:If someone wants to get by, I let them get by, regardless of their behavior on the road. The way I see it, I really have no idea why the other person is in such a hurry. Maybe something important is happening in their life and they need to get somewhere as quickly as possible. Any attempt by me to block them in is immature and just plain juvenile.

Agree completely. I get almost as annoyed by those who try to police other people who don't drive according to their own rules than I am by aggressive drivers. Well, maybe not more annoyed, but just as annoyed, lol. And either way, I let it go right away, cuz what's the point of getting upset about it? I try to follow the rules of the road, and hope others do too, cuz well, it makes everything move along more smoothly and predictably.

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Re: Toyota SECA 1.6 vs BMW X5 4.4i

Postby Shiftnow » Thu Jul 21, 2011 9:56 pm

And you're so blind that you're only looking at the situation from your point of view. Try looking at it from the BMW driver's point of view. He comes up on you while you're driving in the passing lane (and admittedly he must have been doing the same). Now he wants to pass you, so he has two choices: pass you on the right or wait for you to move over to the right and then pass you on the left. Now think about that---in the mind of the BMW driver, you're probably unpredictable. He doesn't know if you will move over the right or if you still stay in the left lane. Why? Simple--because some drivers will know that they should move over and will do just that. Others will simply stay in the passing lane regardless. But the point here is that the BMW driver doesn't know what you will do at this point. So instead of passing you on the right, he chooses to pull up closer hoping that you will move over and allow him to pass in the passing lane (imagine that! LOL).


I'm not quite sure how you managed to come up with the bolded bit, this entire paragraph is one big strawman, firstly you weren't even there, and now you're trying to figure out what the BMW driver was thinking of me, and have gone even so far to claim in his mind I'm unpredictable. Yes, driving at the speed limit, not doing anything weird, is definitely enough for the person tailgating me to think I'm unpredictable. If I was that unpredictable, i.e. going to slam the brakes to make him rear-end me, common sense suggests he would moved to the other lane or backed off.

Analysis fail.


The passing lane is still the passing lane regardless of how many cars are on the road. It only takes two cars on the road (especially if one is attempting to pass the other) for it to even matter. It doesn't take rush-hour traffic to make the rules of the road apply. And by the way, I agree that he wasn't entitled to tailgate you. At the same time, it could have been avoided entirely if you weren't driving in the passing lane in the first place.



There we go again, the same wide sweeping generalization. Let me explain it to you this way. Picture a wire circuit, there are two wires, one has a resistor and the other doesn't, which way does most of the charge flow? Duh, the path of least resistance. Passing lane, or not, late at night, only two cars, only a moron would continue to try and get through the fast lane, when he could have just overtaken me and continued along his merry way. Don't actually tell me if you were in the same situation, you would insist on slowing yourself down just to get the other guy to move out of the way, and if he didn't, you'd continue tailgating for the rest of the distance :roll: - hence increasing your overall time trip. If I'm making way past people, I don't tailgate, I weave and get the hell out of there.


You can try to justify your actions any way you want, but the fact of the matter is that you were in the passing lane when someone was trying to overtake you and you refused to move over. In my opinion, that makes you an immature driver and also makes you a dangerous driver. I also base my opinion on the way you originally told the story in the first place. You seemed to be delighted to turn the situation into some kind of competitive contest. You know, comparing your slower and older car to a newer and more powerful BMW. And I quote:
[/quote][/quote]

Clearly someone such as yourself that claims to tailgate others telling me that I'm an immature and dangerous driver is a complete laugh, are you serious? How old are you, around 17? Oh the irony, "I tailgate people, but you're the dangerous driver" - all it takes is a stray possum to cross the road, and then we're both going to have to stop and you'd get charged for negligent driving as well as be paying for the damage. That's probably the best way to look at this, who'd be at fault if an accident did occur? You.

You'd also lose 3 demerit points, if the police happened to see it, or it was reported, because tailgating is negligent driving, negligence is dangerous driving.

Yes, my storytelling was peppered, like I said. Obviously my car wasn't coughing and spluttering, it doesn't take much to figure out that yes I was trying to be a bit creative, get over it, and stop nitpicking, this has nothing to do with any of that.

And that's the last I will be saying on this matter. You can continue tailgating for all you like, and I will continue to drive at the speed limit in the passing lane if I so wish. The passing lane is not there for going over the speed limit, it's there if idiots in the slow lane are driving slow, which I wasn't doing.


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